21–30 of 37 posts
I sort of agree with some of the commenters here - the system works as intended. If you move to any country without a job first you will have a hard time. Health insurance shouldn't be part of a free 'welcome package' to whoever just feels like dropping by. However, I think it would be hugely beneficial when all (goverment sanctioned) EU health insurances would be valid in all EU countries. If you get a private insur…
I sort of agree with some of the commenters here - the system works as intended. If you move to any country without a job first you will have a hard time. Health insurance shouldn't be part of a free 'welcome package' to whoever just feels like dropping by. However, I think it would be hugely beneficial when all (goverment sanctioned) EU health insurances would be valid in all EU countries. If you get a private insur…
Yes, the German system is not so open. The author correctly describes two options semi-public/private both with entrance hurdles.
The private system are individual insurances. There may be deductibles but generally their coverage is very good. Doctors are paid often double the amount they get from public patients so are also very eager to get these patients. Your health risk here is over-treatment. Why is not everyone getting this fantastic deal? One has to earn a certain amount, be self employed or be a public servant with tenure. The cost depends on pre-existing conditions so unless you enter as healthy&young it becomes very expensive option.
The semi-public insurances are administered by a couple of companies all following the 98% the same rules, some dread disease pool payments between them forced by government to allow portability. Doctors are paid less but the majority of the patients are in this system so there are still penty. Getting a specialist is another topic - there are usually waiting times. The semi-public insurances compete on the 2% differentiation, marketing and their service. One typically enters the public system by not having a private insurance and getting a low paid job. There are other routes to entry but any path less trodden is harder to walk. Unlike the private system the public system covers family (partner if not working and dependent children up to a certain age). Payment depends on your salary up to a limit. In 2017 the MAXIMUM cost based on a rate of 15.7% of ones salary up to a max. salary of 4350€/month are: 317.5 employee and 317.5 employer = 635€/month. If you are earning half then it will be only half.
For anyone in the private insurance the path back to the public insurance is explicitly closed at a certain age. The German system differs from the US system in particular as there is no Medicare. Financing health care in retirement can be a problem for people as the cost in the private system goes up. The private insurances have to put money aside to compensate for health costs of their older customers but that only cushions it.
Health care is expensive and needs financing for dread diseases and high age. This hard fact is a limiting what is possible and requires boundaries to entry. One can not have people saving in one system for a long time and letting others into the same pool when they need access to that pile of money. Germany is able to sustain two systems due to the boundaries between them. The dual system was becoming unstable a few years back when the birth rate decline lead to more older people leaving the private system when older and going into the public one. They enjoyed better service and lower rate in the private system when their health became more costly relied to the wider population in the public system driving up costs there. That was seen as unfair and lead to a shoring up of the boundaries between the two systems.
OK, first off: you definitely need some German speaking friend to deal with German bureaucracy. So ask around who can help you with going to the "Behörden" to deal with the problems of your friend. If the sickness of your friend is an emergency, your doctors should accept the European card EHIC (if she does not have one, she should be able to get it from her Italian insurance). But this of course is not a permanent s…
The enhance part is probably mobile Form S1. http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/social-security-fo...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel like you did not get the point. I'm criticizing exactly this rule which does not make any sense, imho. I am not comparing the two countries.
Doesn't matter if the rules don't make sense, they still have to be followed. Franz Kafka even wrote a book or two about this.
I sort of agree with some of the commenters here - the system works as intended. If you move to any country without a job first you will have a hard time. Health insurance shouldn't be part of a free 'welcome package' to whoever just feels like dropping by. However, I think it would be hugely beneficial when all (goverment sanctioned) EU health insurances would be valid in all EU countries. If you get a private insur…
I can understand this reasoning in the general case, but I'm not sure I agree when the two countries are Italy and Germany. Both Italy and Germany are part of the European Union, and one of the chief political ambitions of this union is the free movement of people within the union. To me it feels a bit weird to say this ambition applies only to the healthy and highly productive. I can certainly see how this can be perceived as a form of "second class citizenship".
But yea, I guess your stance here depends a lot on your politics. Personally I have no problem with people coming to Sweden and using the generous government funded health care system, but I have been thinking about the reverse problem a bit lately: If I as a Swedish citizen move abroad (even outside the EU) I have "free health insurance for life", in the sense that if I get seriously ill I can always get on a plane back to Sweden and receive some of the highest quality care on earth free of charge. I would not need to pay a dime in taxes for this. At this moment we've extended this free insurance to about 660 000 people (the equivalent of 1/15 of the Swedish population), and I bet that's mostly people who are relatively very well off.
I guess when you mix peoples freedom of movement with money it gets complicated real fast...
I would also like to move to another country where I've contributed nothing, and then have taxpayers in that country give me free stuff. Maybe next time I need medical work done I can stop in the Italy, have the Italian taxpayer pay for it, then fly off to a country where I'd actually like to live (e.g. a country which cares more about consumers than the taxi mafia). In all seriousness, the Indian medical system is a…
In Germany (and I guess pretty much any country) this is possible as well. You simply say you are a "Selbstzahler", and I assure you doctors in Germany will be thrilled to treat you (with an advance payment, of course).
I guess what you're meaning is that the Indian medical system is far cheaper, but that's another discussion...
I would also like to move to another country where I've contributed nothing, and then have taxpayers in that country give me free stuff. Maybe next time I need medical work done I can stop in the Italy, have the Italian taxpayer pay for it, then fly off to a country where I'd actually like to live (e.g. a country which cares more about consumers than the taxi mafia). In all seriousness, the Indian medical system is a…
> In all seriousness, the Indian medical system is a shining example of how to be functional. You show up, find out what needs to be done, ask the price, pay and it gets done. I've had LASIK and 2 spine surgeries done in India, +1 will return for all my future medical needs. In Germany (and I guess pretty much any country) this is possible as well. You simply say you are a "Selbstzahler", and I assure you doctors in…
For example, in the US many doctors refused to treat me - I was later told by a doctor that this is for regulatory reasons. US hospitals are famous for not providing a price before treatment, and often trying to sneak non-insured items onto the bill. Compare the expereinces here (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/us/drive-by-doctoring-sur... ) with mine (https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2015/medical_tourism.html ).
I've had similar difficulties in the UK - it's mostly NHS or get out of town. (My issues in the UK were minor, so I decided to just wait until I reached India to get them fixed.)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In all seriousness, the Indian medical system is a shining example of how to be functional. You show up, find out what needs to be done, ask the price, pay and it gets done. I've had LASIK and 2 spine surgeries done in India, +1 will return for all my future medical needs. In Germany (and I guess pretty much any country) this is possible as well. You simply say you are a "Selbstzahler", and I assure you doctors in…
I've only spent about 6 hours in Germany, so I can't speak about Germany. But in many places - the US and UK, for example - it's often quite difficult to get medical work done simply by paying money. For example, in the US many doctors refused to treat me - I was later told by a doctor that this is for regulatory reasons. US hospitals are famous for not providing a price before treatment, and often trying to sneak no…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've only spent about 6 hours in Germany, so I can't speak about Germany. But in many places - the US and UK, for example - it's often quite difficult to get medical work done simply by paying money. For example, in the US many doctors refused to treat me - I was later told by a doctor that this is for regulatory reasons. US hospitals are famous for not providing a price before treatment, and often trying to sneak no…
Interesting. I didn't think it was a problem to be treated when you put cash on the table. But maybe you have to be very rich. At least in Germany, some hospitals/doctors in Munich are pretty known for courting rich patients from the middle east, and those surely don't depend on some insurance...
Anecdotally, I've been told that a lot of middle Eastern medicine is corrupt and low quality. I ran into a lot of gulf state medical tourists in India who told me this (obviously a biased sample).