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Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

economist.com

21–30 of 166 posts

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#21
post #20

> The common perception that China is incapable of innovation needs re-examining. No one is saying Chinese people can't innovate. The real question is whether Chinese people can innovate while inside China. (I wonder what percentage of current captains of industry in China studied abroad?) Why? Because innovation is essentially disrupting and rebelling against the status quo. ie breaking rules, disobedience, oppositi…

When you demand that your people bow and obey, and imprison people like A1 WW, this goes against promoting and nurturing innovation Although the Japanese were not imprisoning people "like A1 WW", they were bowing and obeying when they ushered the era of consumer electronics a few decades ago. Now it's the turn of the Chinese.

Yes the Japanese are polite and formal and like China there's a huge pressure to conform. However imo there's one key difference: the Japanese obsession with kaizen- constant improvement and striving for perfection. It may not override outward conformity for appearances sake, but imo there are enough Japanese who are madly in love and obsessed with the idea of attempting to achieve acme, that they're willing to risk everything else for it ie. look at things differently, disobey, risk embarrassment from failure, etc... Conversely with the Chinese, guangxi tends to be only fully actualized and achieved with money and expensive physical things that money buys. When it's just about money and there's no love, everything suffers like creativity and quality. The end result is a cheap shallow copy. The authoritarian gov exacerbates this problem.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#22
post #3

WIRED UK did a great job going into more detail on Shenzhen, highly recommend watching the documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY&t=8s

This doc is amazing!

Thank you!

I am super inspired to go there... I have a product I want made, that I want to find out how much it would cost to make. It would be wonderful to go to Shenzen, but I found a place in Fremont CA that is a mfr of the component I need with offices in Shenzen. so trying to contact them.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#23
post #7

The "maker movement" is alive in Shentzen, but mostly dead in Silicon Valley. TechShop is mostly crafters, not people building anything innovative. Hacker Dojo is appslaves. If there's a maker space in Silicon Valley with a pick and place machine, I can't find it.

This is also true in Seattle. The "makerspaces" here are incapable of working with anything beyond PLA. There are some cool tool libraries, which can be useful for larger hardware projects, but there seems to be very little in the way of true hackerspaces. If you want to get into EE or circuitry in the US, there are plenty of good online resources, but you will be at a severe disadvantage to people living in parts of the world with active maker communities.

But I think there's a reason for that. Innovation faces a steep uphill climb in the USA.

1. I have a cool idea, but I don't have the capital to bootstrap it right away. No problem, I can work and draw a wage while doing my research on the side, right? Nope! This is America, and your employer likely claims to own everything that you create or think of, on or off the clock.

2. I have a cool idea, and want to play around with it even though I could use some help with some basic concepts. Well that's great, but I'm on my own. There are no incubators that specialize in electronics or circuitry, no groups of experienced hardware hackers to mentor newcomers, and no specialized training or local resources. You also cannot source circuit components locally when most cities seem to lack a single hobby shop. Often if you want to find out if a circuit will work, you need to wait a whole week for new parts, if you're lucky and can find them from a stateside retailer at a reasonable price.

3. You might think that academic institutions would make themselves available to their surrounding communities, offering night classes and/or access to facilities like machine shops or lab equipment which are typically beyond the reach of an individual. You would be wrong; this is America, and if you don't pay full tuition, you can fuck right off.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#25

> The common perception that China is incapable of innovation needs re-examining. No one is saying Chinese people can't innovate. The real question is whether Chinese people can innovate while inside China. (I wonder what percentage of current captains of industry in China studied abroad?) Why? Because innovation is essentially disrupting and rebelling against the status quo. ie breaking rules, disobedience, oppositi…

I think that it's very possible that unrestricted political speech isn't needed for dynamic business environments. I feel like a lot of Americans are waiting for the other shoe to drop, but only use vague innuendo or metaphor to explain why free speech is necessary for the next electronics innovation.

Can't we just say we like free speech? Because if we dont, and they can develop new commercial products without it, China will likely never get free speech. They'll just hear about it as something Western companies wanted that China succeeded without.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#26
post #25

> The common perception that China is incapable of innovation needs re-examining. No one is saying Chinese people can't innovate. The real question is whether Chinese people can innovate while inside China. (I wonder what percentage of current captains of industry in China studied abroad?) Why? Because innovation is essentially disrupting and rebelling against the status quo. ie breaking rules, disobedience, oppositi…

I think that it's very possible that unrestricted political speech isn't needed for dynamic business environments. I feel like a lot of Americans are waiting for the other shoe to drop, but only use vague innuendo or metaphor to explain why free speech is necessary for the next electronics innovation. Can't we just say we like free speech? Because if we dont, and they can develop new commercial products without it, C…

Dynamic business environments - no. World changing innovation - yes.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#27
post #7

The "maker movement" is alive in Shentzen, but mostly dead in Silicon Valley. TechShop is mostly crafters, not people building anything innovative. Hacker Dojo is appslaves. If there's a maker space in Silicon Valley with a pick and place machine, I can't find it.

That comment seems needlessly negative and requires everyone to fit within your definition of "making".

The hacker dojo events seem somewhat broad though many are more software based: https://events.hackerdojo.com/

I think we are lucky to have things like hacker dojo and techshop in our local area as well as meetups for diverse interests. Pretty sure you could find like minded folks in the area if you made the effort.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#28
post #25

> The common perception that China is incapable of innovation needs re-examining. No one is saying Chinese people can't innovate. The real question is whether Chinese people can innovate while inside China. (I wonder what percentage of current captains of industry in China studied abroad?) Why? Because innovation is essentially disrupting and rebelling against the status quo. ie breaking rules, disobedience, oppositi…

I think that it's very possible that unrestricted political speech isn't needed for dynamic business environments. I feel like a lot of Americans are waiting for the other shoe to drop, but only use vague innuendo or metaphor to explain why free speech is necessary for the next electronics innovation. Can't we just say we like free speech? Because if we dont, and they can develop new commercial products without it, C…

The Tianenmen square protests failed ultimately because the rest of China didn't know they were going on.

What happens now when with a flick of wechat the entire nation takes to the streets? All it will take is a leaders mistakes and a single spark.

It's not a question of whether China will have free speech and democracy but when.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#29

> The common perception that China is incapable of innovation needs re-examining. No one is saying Chinese people can't innovate. The real question is whether Chinese people can innovate while inside China. (I wonder what percentage of current captains of industry in China studied abroad?) Why? Because innovation is essentially disrupting and rebelling against the status quo. ie breaking rules, disobedience, oppositi…

Remember that innovations in tech do not require disrupting the government. The tech innovators have little interests in sabotaging the government. Innovations in tech is different from breaking government rules. Tech innovations are about disrupting the incumbents such as Microsoft, Amazon, Google, not about the government. Quite to the contrary, the Chinese government encourages tech innovations. Not only that they allow them to innovate, they allow them to break existing rules. As an instance, China is one of the few large countries which have legalized shared cars nation-wide(Didi, Uber). Not even the US.

Re: Shenzhen is a hothouse of innovation

#30
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you demand that your people bow and obey, and imprison people like A1 WW, this goes against promoting and nurturing innovation Although the Japanese were not imprisoning people "like A1 WW", they were bowing and obeying when they ushered the era of consumer electronics a few decades ago. Now it's the turn of the Chinese.

Yes the Japanese are polite and formal and like China there's a huge pressure to conform. However imo there's one key difference: the Japanese obsession with kaizen- constant improvement and striving for perfection. It may not override outward conformity for appearances sake, but imo there are enough Japanese who are madly in love and obsessed with the idea of attempting to achieve acme, that they're willing to risk…

Everything comes and goes. It's just the nature of things. When it's your time to lead the pack, you will, regardless of the cultural environment. Most of us (in the West) don't know it yet, but we're already in the Chinese Age.

How long will their time last?

The funny thing about the influence of culture on innovation is that when this country (USA) was rewriting the rules and breaking down boundaries this way and that way, we were sending minorities to jail like "AI WW" and generally compelling them to behave and know their place.

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