This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame? • Hacker News Board

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#21

Post by beambot » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:18 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

1000 words later... She recently received a raise and now makes $22 an hour working for a photographer. It's the highest salary she's earned since graduating with an interdisciplinary degree in religious and women's studies. [...] "I don't want to spend the rest of my life slaving away to pay for an education I got for four years and would happily give back," she said. "It feels wrong to me." Words fail me.

Exactly!

My labmates and I (all PhD students in robotics) read through that _entire_ article up until that statement. We work like mad as paid engineering grad students, covered by grants and industrial partnerships. Because we serve a useful role to the University and our collaborators / partners, our grad school is _earned_ sans debt. We get an education chocked full of useful skills; they get cheap labor for 4-6 years.

It is ridiculous to expect handouts and/or government subsidies for a degree with so few (obviously) practical skills.

On a related note, I'm disappointed with the NYT shock-and-awe tactics. The degree sought should have been in the first paragraph!

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#22

Post by herdrick » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:18 AM UTC

tkahn6 wrote: post #8

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

1000 words later... She recently received a raise and now makes $22 an hour working for a photographer. It's the highest salary she's earned since graduating with an interdisciplinary degree in religious and women's studies. [...] "I don't want to spend the rest of my life slaving away to pay for an education I got for four years and would happily give back," she said. "It feels wrong to me." Words fail me.

This woman has some major balls to blame her shitty choice in a major and subsequent debt on other people. She made a poor choice and she needs to pay for it. This is a systemic problem and the only way to cure it is to enforce personal responsibility.

For how long do you think she should be paying for that poor choice?

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#23

Post by stretchwithme » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:19 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

1000 words later... She recently received a raise and now makes $22 an hour working for a photographer. It's the highest salary she's earned since graduating with an interdisciplinary degree in religious and women's studies. [...] "I don't want to spend the rest of my life slaving away to pay for an education I got for four years and would happily give back," she said. "It feels wrong to me." Words fail me.

What it feels is inconvenient.

God, the nerve of some people.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#24

Post by noonespecial » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:23 AM UTC

herdrick wrote: post #22

tkahn6 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This woman has some major balls to blame her shitty choice in a major and subsequent debt on other people. She made a poor choice and she needs to pay for it. This is a systemic problem and the only way to cure it is to enforce personal responsibility.

For how long do you think she should be paying for that poor choice?

The question you are actually asking is when should we start paying for her poor choice.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#25

Post by netcan » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:24 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

1000 words later... She recently received a raise and now makes $22 an hour working for a photographer. It's the highest salary she's earned since graduating with an interdisciplinary degree in religious and women's studies. [...] "I don't want to spend the rest of my life slaving away to pay for an education I got for four years and would happily give back," she said. "It feels wrong to me." Words fail me.

Interesting thing is that it's possible for a degree to be a lot cheaper.

When people take a job that' "something they love" a lot of them will be prepared to earn less. Couldn't a similar principle apply where people studying "something they love" do it some place cheap and possibly less prestigious?

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#26

Post by netcan » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:26 AM UTC

..it's a shared failure of parenting and loan underwriting.

But perhaps the biggest share lies with colleges and universities because they have the most knowledge of the financial aid process.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#27

Post by snewe » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:27 AM UTC

wisty wrote: post #20

How does it cost $40k a year for tuition? It seems that college fees range from $5k to $40k plus. I can understand that better lecturers cost a bit more, but that can't explain much. What are the cost structures like? Or is the higher cost just being driven by greater availability of credit for the students? If this is the case, unis will find a way to absorb the extra cash, but not in a good way.

Easy credit explains a big part of the increases in tuition. Gov't subsidies that underly the ease of racking up 100K in student loans could directly impact the cost of college. If everyone applying to university can pay either through a loan or out-of-pocket, then it makes sense for colleges to raise prices. In turn, the employees of that company (the university) have higher productivity in real dollars so they all get higher wages.

People often think that they need more student loans because college is becoming more expensive. It is more likely that college is becoming more expensive because the gov't makes loans for college too cheap.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#28

Post by herdrick » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:27 AM UTC

wisty wrote: post #20

How does it cost $40k a year for tuition? It seems that college fees range from $5k to $40k plus. I can understand that better lecturers cost a bit more, but that can't explain much. What are the cost structures like? Or is the higher cost just being driven by greater availability of credit for the students? If this is the case, unis will find a way to absorb the extra cash, but not in a good way.

That's basically it, yes.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#29

Post by DilipJ » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:29 AM UTC

tkahn6 wrote: post #8

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

1000 words later... She recently received a raise and now makes $22 an hour working for a photographer. It's the highest salary she's earned since graduating with an interdisciplinary degree in religious and women's studies. [...] "I don't want to spend the rest of my life slaving away to pay for an education I got for four years and would happily give back," she said. "It feels wrong to me." Words fail me.

This woman has some major balls to blame her shitty choice in a major and subsequent debt on other people. She made a poor choice and she needs to pay for it. This is a systemic problem and the only way to cure it is to enforce personal responsibility.

She was young when she made this choice. To suggest that she should be liable for the rest of her life for this decision is crazy. Student loans should be dischargeable under bankruptcy, or should be debt that one can negotiate with the lender. There's something wrong with allowing mortgage and credit card debt to be discharged by people who buy McMansions or go on vacations, but not to some poor girl wanting to get a college education. If the law were changed to allow student loans to be discharged, then it would have the effect of lenders having to verify that the borrower would have a reasonable chance of paying the loan back. This would involve looking at the tuition costs and the expected salary that the degree in question would provide. If that were the case, there would be no way any lender would allow this girl (and the thousands of others like her) from pursuing such a degree at such a high cost. As a result, she (and others) would not have been able to attend college, thus decreasing enrollment nationwide, resulting in universities decreasing tuition in order attract sufficient students.

Supply and demand should be what determines the cost of any degree program. As long as the demand side is subsidized by the government through loans and debt that cannot be negotiated/discharged later on, then tuition costs will continue to rise and young lives will continue to be ruined.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#30

Post by waratuman » Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 6:30 AM UTC

dmor wrote: post #16

Reading down to the bottom... "After taxes, she takes home about $2,300 a month. Rent runs $750, and the full monthly payments on her student loans would be about $700 if they weren't being deferred, which would not leave a lot left over." How is $850 not a lot left over for discretionary spending when you are 26 and just starting your career? You eat crap food, walk and take public trans and you make it work. This s…

I don't understand it myself. $850 is more than enough to live on per month, especially at her age.