UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable • Hacker News Board

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#21

Post by ktta » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 10:59 AM UTC

Hmm, this definitely brings up an interesting discussion I don't think HN has had before, especially something in a similar vein since Apple+San Bernardino fiasco.

Obviously privacy is something that HN holds very close to its heart. But I'm interested in what do people here have to say about the privacy features are used by terrible people to do terrible things.

And I want to share something that I think is one of the best arguments for privacy, complete privacy. I do agree with this completely: https://moxie.org/blog/we-should-all-have-something-to-hide/

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#22

Post by sn41 » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 10:59 AM UTC

In the 1970s, an American president had to resign because of some bugs planted.

Now, private conversation is illegal.

I guess it leads to "ownlife".

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#23

Post by visarga » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:00 AM UTC

tinus_hn wrote: post #2

How would that have prevented anything? As if they'd have responded within 2 minutes to some guy sending weird messages.

Suppose they intercept WhatsApp. The need to react to each suspicious message within the minute, and be perfectly efficient in catching terrorists while avoiding innocents.

Of course they would need to intercept all other communication services, including home-made ones.

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#24

Post by Symbiote » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:01 AM UTC

bvwiqvqebui wrote: post #3

what if the guy read a book and agreed with it because he was an sad angry teenager with no life

Possession of The Anarchist Cookbook has been used as evidence against terrorist suspects in Britain, and also as a crime itself, "Possession of terrorist material". In the latter case, the 17 year old's argument was pretty much what you suggest, and he was cleared.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7030096.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchist_Cookbook#Legalit...

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#25

Post by techrich » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:05 AM UTC

as usual she has no idea.

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#26

Post by aluhut » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:05 AM UTC

yellow_viper wrote: post #6

callesgg wrote: post #5

How can it be acceptable to say shit like this when you have such a position within the government.

Because we've accepted it. We know the government is watching us 24/7 and no one cares. This is the new norm. Stories like this fill me with a slight bit of hope that encryption works

I wonder how they are not even busy explaining how this could happen with all that surveillance already in place. I mean no camera jumped down the pole to stop the car...

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#27

Post by joshvm » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:06 AM UTC

royka118 wrote: post #13

Is it technically feasible to have a back door and still be `end to end` encrypted ?

Yes, this was revealed by the recent agency leaks. Cracking end to end encryption is still extremely difficult (currently impossible?). It's much easier to get root on a target's phone and run a keylogger or break into the app. The messages are still end-end encrypted, but you can sniff them before they're sent and after they're received since they're shown to the user in plaintext.

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#28

Post by fwn » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:06 AM UTC

ktta wrote: post #21

Hmm, this definitely brings up an interesting discussion I don't think HN has had before, especially something in a similar vein since Apple+San Bernardino fiasco. Obviously privacy is something that HN holds very close to its heart. But I'm interested in what do people here have to say about the privacy features are used by terrible people to do terrible things. And I want to share something that I think is one of t…

I strongly believe that tools are ethically neutral.

A hammer, a knife or a government can be pretty useful, or pretty violent - depending on how you use it. This alone does not imply that a hammer, a knife or a government should not exist or be banned.

edit: words

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#29

Post by loup-vaillant » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:07 AM UTC

orian wrote: post #7

How do they want to prevent someone from creating his own end-to-end encryption app? It may use other protocols to encode content (images, tweets, fb posts etc.). For me it seems to be more in a direction of so called "Big Brother" than real counter-terrorism.

> How do they want to prevent someone from creating his own end-to-end encryption app?

It's basically impossible. One can also use steganography to hide messages in lolcat pictures, or music files. The only way to prevent this, I think, is to start a totalitarian surveillance state where using Free or custom software or hardware is punishable by death. Even then, I'm not sure this will be enough.

Re: UK Home Secretary says encryption on messaging services is unacceptable

#30

Post by drcross » Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 11:08 AM UTC

royka118 wrote: post #13

Is it technically feasible to have a back door and still be `end to end` encrypted ?

The recent wikileaks documents from the CIA say that yes it is possibly but instead of blanket backdoor they have to be specifically targeted. Whether that's the current state of affairs of not, I dont know.