21–30 of 54 posts
Maybe there's room for recovering the raw materials effectively, and I wonder if there are upfront tradeoffs that could be exchanged to make that easier. Musk has repeatedly said that scale cost reductions leads ultimately to material cost limit and it's already up to ~50$\130$ per kwH.
Do the batteries retain so much of their value because energy density (J/kg) of batteries hasn't improved for a long time? If a battery new tech comes out that is sufficiently energy dense (and is mass produced), these old batteries won't have much value except as scrap. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602245/why-we-still-dont-...
$15000 per 10 year old Tesla battery is the answer to the question, 'how much would a 10 year old Tesla battery be worth to a utility if used to supply peeking power?'
Ans: $15k
They get that number multiplying the going rate for peek power by the remaining battery capacity over 16 years.
Year 1: 0.0385 MW/days X $100 X 365 days = $1405
Over a 16 year investment period adds up to $15k.
This is a terrible analysis. First of all, it assumes that the cost of a kWh of battery remains at today's high value. If battery costs are falling rapidly (and they are), then the value of a used battery pack will be driven down as inexpensive new packs come on the market. Second, it ignores the fact that 10-year-old packs will have a substantially higher rate of catastrophic failure than new packs, and if reliabili…
Where does the author give a battery resale value for the Fiat 500e? Since it has a small battery, it degrades much faster per mile than a large battery.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where does the author give a battery resale value for the Fiat 500e? Since it has a small battery, it degrades much faster per mile than a large battery.
it weights 1/3 of tesla so it degrades 3x slower
I believe that as batteries get on in in life their rate of decay accelerates. It's not a linear process. Maybe there's room for recovering the raw materials effectively, and I wonder if there are upfront tradeoffs that could be exchanged to make that easier. Musk has repeatedly said that scale cost reductions leads ultimately to material cost limit and it's already up to ~50$\130$ per kwH.
Compare this with lead acid batteries. About 99% of lead acid batteries are recycled, and the recycling process itself is rather efficient.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714...
I am of the opinion that the EV market is going to be held back until we have standard battery packs of known price, quality, and warranty. There's no good reason that this can't be taken on by some standards body. ANSI? Milspec? Please, somebody!
As long as battery life, size and weight are all important to the buyers, manufacturers would rather put in the extra customization work to get a competitive advantage.
This is a terrible analysis. First of all, it assumes that the cost of a kWh of battery remains at today's high value. If battery costs are falling rapidly (and they are), then the value of a used battery pack will be driven down as inexpensive new packs come on the market. Second, it ignores the fact that 10-year-old packs will have a substantially higher rate of catastrophic failure than new packs, and if reliabili…
$4k sounds like a market failure, and probably Chrysler Fiat mismanaging the project. They treat the 500e with utter contempt. If there's 18 kWh of the 24 kWh left, that's just $222/kWh. That would be a fantastic battery system for an off the grid home.
Pity, because I quite like the styling. They're nowhere near that cheap in the UK (ebay has exactly one, at £11,000) while Leaves are widely available.
Depreciation seems to be brutal for electric cars, and not just for the battery. It's more like the mobile phone market in the early 2010s: every year brings new features and is noticeably better.
I am of the opinion that the EV market is going to be held back until we have standard battery packs of known price, quality, and warranty. There's no good reason that this can't be taken on by some standards body. ANSI? Milspec? Please, somebody!
It hasn't happened for mobiles or laptops, and I suspect similar reasons will prevent it from happening for cars. As long as battery life, size and weight are all important to the buyers, manufacturers would rather put in the extra customization work to get a competitive advantage.
This is a terrible analysis. First of all, it assumes that the cost of a kWh of battery remains at today's high value. If battery costs are falling rapidly (and they are), then the value of a used battery pack will be driven down as inexpensive new packs come on the market. Second, it ignores the fact that 10-year-old packs will have a substantially higher rate of catastrophic failure than new packs, and if reliabili…
Things like double digit subsidies and grants for eco-* stuffs in China and EU distort the picture.
What it means is that biggest Chinese EV makers with big enough GR-office can get cells for 20% of what is a wholesale price for Western buyer.
Chinese complain that 2kw/h battery packs for scooters cost $400 retail. They probably don't know how much they cost in US.
Do the batteries retain so much of their value because energy density (J/kg) of batteries hasn't improved for a long time? If a battery new tech comes out that is sufficiently energy dense (and is mass produced), these old batteries won't have much value except as scrap. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602245/why-we-still-dont-...
I re-read the article to be sure and here is that answer. $15000 per 10 year old Tesla battery is the answer to the question, 'how much would a 10 year old Tesla battery be worth to a utility if used to supply peeking power?' Ans: $15k They get that number multiplying the going rate for peek power by the remaining battery capacity over 16 years. Year 1: 0.0385 MW/days X $100 X 365 days = $1405 Over a 16 year investme…
Year 1 (corrected): 0.0032 MW-days x ($100 - $70) x 365 days = $35.04
Edit: This assumes they're cycling the battery once per day. Presumably there's only one period each day when they can sell at peak and one period each day when they can buy at off-peak.