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GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

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Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#21
As developers, we're biased towards one view of this issue, but it's intellectually lazy of us to just say "Yeah, we deserve it! Because... fairness!"

Last December, Joel Spolsky wrote about developer side projects, and honestly, he's right.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...

My view: In some companies, depending on their business model, it might be reasonable to ask to own your own work on side projects. But it would be reasonable of them to expect you to give up something in exchange (e.g. smaller salary).

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#22
"But rather than negotiating a deal, Alcatel fired Brown and sued him for ownership of the idea. After a seven-year-long court battle, he lost and was forced to spend three months at the company’s offices, without pay, writing out the code to implement his solution."

I deeply hate the judge who made this verdict. You must be truly devoid of human feeling and common sense to explain this as a reasonable application of the law.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#23

Pet projects are not necessarily good for a company: 1) Code is not necessarily an asset, it is also a liability: needs to be maintained, tested, documented, etc. This has a non-trivial cost. 2) Engineer salaries are usually more expensive than a license. 3) Experience working using internal frameworks/libraries/etc can be harder to trade in the marketplace, especially if you are not the author. 4) It is hard to keep…

You might want to move the last sentence to the beginning. Your opening comment could easily be interpreted as "companies should forbid pet projects".

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#24

As developers, we're biased towards one view of this issue, but it's intellectually lazy of us to just say "Yeah, we deserve it! Because... fairness!" Last December, Joel Spolsky wrote about developer side projects, and honestly, he's right. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... My view: In some companies, depending on their business model, it might be reasonable to ask to own your own work…

Isn't this ignoring the benefit companies might want the kind of talent that can pump out side projects as well as their work? But that's rooted to the 10x engineer myth.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#25
Can someone please clarify this for me.

An employer is paying six figures to an employee. In exchange for said salary, employee works set hours and within that time, is supposed to work for the employer and anything they create within that period is owned by the employer.

However, in the comments. It seems like everyone wants their cake and eat it too? Which is to say, if I'm working for you between the contracted hours of 9 to 5. And if I am working on a personal project that the employer is not going to benefit, I should keep the IP. Even though the employer is paying for my time?

Note, this isn't about working outside of the contracted hours at home, nor is it about staying late and using company resources to develop said project and claiming IP belongs to the employee.

For large companies like github. They could probably be more flexible. But for smaller companies, every working daylight hour to them is needed and required for projects to deliver on-time.

These very same companies would argue that all code/IP belongs to them. That they woudn't want employees working on pet projects in THEIR paid time.

Kinda sounds to me, that people here wants 3 things.

1) Pay me a large wage > north of 6 figures. 2) If I code something for me during working hours, it's MINE. 3) If I code something outside of working hours, it's also MINE.

Sounds like bratish entitled behavior no?

Can someone set me straight here? I don't see how this could be good for employers who don't agree with this.

Oh and btw, if you want to work on your own thing, being paid by a company, that you keep the IP. It's called being an entrepreneur and setting up your own company. So instead of saying kudos I wish more companies do this. Go start your own today and you have that freedom NOW!

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#26

As developers, we're biased towards one view of this issue, but it's intellectually lazy of us to just say "Yeah, we deserve it! Because... fairness!" Last December, Joel Spolsky wrote about developer side projects, and honestly, he's right. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... My view: In some companies, depending on their business model, it might be reasonable to ask to own your own work…

> But it would be reasonable of them to expect you to give up something in exchange (e.g. smaller salary).

Except when the side project is useful for your employer and you've effectively contributed free, unpaid labor to developing it.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#27

For anyone interested in the Alcatel horror story mentioned in the article, it's even worse than you thought: Therefore his thoughts, which were characterised as “invention” in the decision, should be disclosed to Alcatel. The judge also ordered Brown to pay Alcatel’s legal fees, which exceeded $330,000.[1] 1: https://www.law360.com/ip/articles/1899/appeals-court-affirm...

Sometimes it feels like Kafka's The Trial is where the US court system takes most of it's inspiration from...

In think that in most countries, a large company will always win big trials.

Andrew "bunnie" Huang has written a very good 2-page note on this in: http://bunniefoo.com/nostarch/HackingTheXbox_Free.pdf (first two pages, but the whole book is a good read)

In the US it seems especially bad, since Americans seem exceptionally obsessed with "living the American dream" aka making a lot of money. Many people assume that if you have a lot of money, you must be a good person.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#28

People keep complaining about how hard and expensive it is to attract top talent. This kind of measure is exactly how you do it. Provide an environment where employees feel trusted and empowered, pay market rate, screen properly instead of having applicants jump through hoops, and you won't have much trouble hiring. Kudos to github for this, I'm impressed!

Sad that having even minimal employee rights is some how seen as exceptional.

From someone that is able to enjoy proper work conditions in socialist Europe, the state of work condition expectations in US is always surprising.

Sometimes I get the feeling that even my own country (Portugal), with all its issues regarding work conditions, still appears to be in better shape.

Re: GitHub lets staff own IP developed for personal projects using company resources

#30

As developers, we're biased towards one view of this issue, but it's intellectually lazy of us to just say "Yeah, we deserve it! Because... fairness!" Last December, Joel Spolsky wrote about developer side projects, and honestly, he's right. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... My view: In some companies, depending on their business model, it might be reasonable to ask to own your own work…

> But it would be reasonable of them to expect you to give up something in exchange (e.g. smaller salary). Except when the side project is useful for your employer and you've effectively contributed free, unpaid labor to developing it.

The question here isn't whether your should work on side projects at all. It's about who owns the side project when you're done.
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