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How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

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Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#21
post #3

I wonder if better/more accessible health care would eliminate homeless as a side effect. It seems much of the homeless in Boston, anyway is mental health/health related. I doubt anyone will say that what Utah did here is bad , but you have to wonder what's preventing a more comprehensive solution (the answer is politics, but ideally you'd get a more specific answer).

It seems to me that largely the issue is there's no mechanism to force people into treatment for drug/alcohol addiction and mental illness.

Here in Los Angeles the number of homeless who are severely mentally ill is incredibly high. It's quite common to see homeless people standing on street corners, yelling and screaming at non-existent antagonists, behaving bizarrely, urinating and defecating in broad daylight, and creating a general nuisance for everyone around them.

The same goes for seeing drug and alcohol use in public, especially in places like downtown LA and Venice Beach.

Seems to me that the homelessness isn't the problem, so much as a symptom of the underlying issues of addiction and mental illness, and unless people voluntarily seek treatment for those issues their situation is unlikely to change.

Whether the healthcare is available or not, the question is moot if you can't force people to go to rehab and take their meds.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#22

I'm confused by this. My brother has an office in downtown SLC near the Rio Grande building, and it's pretty clear when I visit him that there are hundreds of homeless people living in that neighborhood alone. Pioneer Park is also covered in homeless people. If that is less than 200 people either I don't understand what "homeless" means or something is... off. How does one define "chronic homelessness?" I really want…

Not every homeless person is chronically homeless. A lot of homeless people have skills (so don't look down on them), but they're going through a rough time. After a while, they pick themselves up, go into rehab or whatever, and become non-homeless again.

> Not every homeless person is chronically homeless.

That's completely biased though. You can only know who is chronically homeless AFTER the fact. So this whole celebration of reducing chronic homelessness is more likely just a PR piece.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#23
I have no doubt that this program works, even if the success has been overstated [0]. What we really need to think critically about is how exportable the concept is. And really, it comes down to one singular reason, housing costs[1]. High housing costs like those in most coastal cities contribute to higher inflows into homelessness and lower outflows out of homelessness, which means that higher housing costs increase the total number of homeless people and the duration of homelessness. They also increase the capital and administration costs of administering the program, often by a factor of two or more.

So in a city like Seattle or San Francisco, you're going to have drastically more people to house, for drastically longer periods of time, and at higher fixed and variable costs. I have no problem believing that this solution if exported to San Francisco, New York, or Seattle, would cost anywhere between 1-2 orders of magnitude more than SLC as a percentage of total population.

IMO, anti-housing-development trends in our most economically important cities truly have become the US' largest source of injustice in the 21st century [2].

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/27/utah-homeles...

[1] https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-salt-lake-city-re...

[2] https://medium.com/the-ferenstein-wire/a-26-year-old-mit-gra...

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#24

I'm confused by this. My brother has an office in downtown SLC near the Rio Grande building, and it's pretty clear when I visit him that there are hundreds of homeless people living in that neighborhood alone. Pioneer Park is also covered in homeless people. If that is less than 200 people either I don't understand what "homeless" means or something is... off. How does one define "chronic homelessness?" I really want…

Having relatives in city government I have overheard that Utah's proud achievement was accomplished by "adjustments made to their demographic surveys". And that this was seen as a very economical solution to the problem.

I feel like cynical hear-say like this adds nothing to the conversation. It just tries to smugly diminish good news with no proof.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#25

I'm confused by this. My brother has an office in downtown SLC near the Rio Grande building, and it's pretty clear when I visit him that there are hundreds of homeless people living in that neighborhood alone. Pioneer Park is also covered in homeless people. If that is less than 200 people either I don't understand what "homeless" means or something is... off. How does one define "chronic homelessness?" I really want…

Salt Lake City has a lot of seasonal homeless, people who come for the summer and leave for the winter. Seasonal homeless are not counted as chronic homeless.

There are no homeless people anywhere else in the state so the ones you see in Salt Lake are it.

Not all panhandlers are homeless. Most of the homeless in Salt Lake City seem to disappear at night. There are no massive homeless camps like you see in San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. A lot of the panhandlers in Salt Lake have houses and consider panhandling to be their day job. https://www.ksl.com/?sid=27782692

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having relatives in city government I have overheard that Utah's proud achievement was accomplished by "adjustments made to their demographic surveys". And that this was seen as a very economical solution to the problem.

I feel like cynical hear-say like this adds nothing to the conversation. It just tries to smugly diminish good news with no proof.

It's also very likely true.

http://www.aei.org/publication/on-utahs-91-percent-decrease-...

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that sticks in my mind after a business trip to SLC (SaltConf last year) were the ubiquitous red signs urging people to turn away panhandlers. If people actually take notice, I'd be willing to bet this results in the problem being hidden a lot more than it is in some other cities. The admittedly surface impression I got was that the city is hostile to the homeless.

I was very disappointed that ordinances to restrict panhandling in medians were overturned in Portland, ME in recent years. There's no need of that. If you are willing to work, there is always work to be done for a decent wage, (although possibly less than the absurd level minimum wage has climbed to).

The minimum wage nowadays is just outrageous.

http://money.cnn.com/interactive/economy/minimum-wage-since-...

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having relatives in city government I have overheard that Utah's proud achievement was accomplished by "adjustments made to their demographic surveys". And that this was seen as a very economical solution to the problem.

I feel like cynical hear-say like this adds nothing to the conversation. It just tries to smugly diminish good news with no proof.

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