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Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

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Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#21

Post by sddfd »

0x0 wrote: post #9
owenwil wrote: post #7

This seems counterintuitive, even if Windows 7/8 are on life-support now. Surely letting people just install the updates 'as is' is better than restricting them. That said – this is not so different from Apple, which puts computers into "end of life" every few years, so you can't get any updates.

Isn't it quite the opposite though? Here, old computers get updates but new computers/cpus are killed before they get to start?

They are trying to kill windows 7/8.1 to get as much people to 10 as possible.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#22

Post by ianai »

owenwil wrote: post #7

This seems counterintuitive, even if Windows 7/8 are on life-support now. Surely letting people just install the updates 'as is' is better than restricting them. That said – this is not so different from Apple, which puts computers into "end of life" every few years, so you can't get any updates.

No, there you're pointing out the actual difference between Apple and Microsoft. I don't even remember the last time I directly paid for a Mac OS (10.6?). Nowadays it all comes down through the Mac App Store, a usb key, or a rescue partition. Periodically Apple discontinues which hardware sets it supports. You can still boot that same hardware on whatever the latest, most patched OS that will run on it - from Apple. They sell hardware. Intel does the exact same thing with their processors. Microsoft does the same with its products - which are software based.

Per Microsoft, Windows XP is EOL. It doesn't matter what hardware you want to run it on - Windows XP is no longer supported by Microsoft. Are they attempting to push people to newer versions of Windows? Absolutely. They're essentially defining their product.

This seems different on the outside but I'm not sure it is. I think they've said something about Skylake/above functions differently enough to require significant changes to Windows 7.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#23

Post by cm2187 »

tekklloneer wrote: post #3
Jedd wrote: post #2

> This error occurs because new processor generations require the latest Windows version for support. Can someone explain this better? It feels like the direction of 'support' has been inverted. I thought all these new CPU's were supersets of the instruction set of previous gen i386/amd64 processors?

Microsoft does extensive testing, not just on the "instruction set", but also the chipsets and surrounding ecosystems of the processor. It's annoying, and probably well within their ability to, but also not inexpensive.

But intel develops the chipset drivers, not microsoft.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#24

Post by cm2187 »

CJefferson wrote: post #10
Jedd wrote: post #2

> This error occurs because new processor generations require the latest Windows version for support. Can someone explain this better? It feels like the direction of 'support' has been inverted. I thought all these new CPU's were supersets of the instruction set of previous gen i386/amd64 processors?

It isn't the CPU instructions. Someone has to write drivers for the memory controller, and usb, Bluetooth, thunderbolt, on board graphics, sound, .... It could be done, but it is a major piece of work and noone would pay for it. If anyone wanted to do this themselves, then i believe windows 7 would run fine.

But microsoft isn't the one writing the drivers. Why would it block the CPU?

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#25

Post by cm2187 »

ianai wrote: post #22
owenwil wrote: post #7

This seems counterintuitive, even if Windows 7/8 are on life-support now. Surely letting people just install the updates 'as is' is better than restricting them. That said – this is not so different from Apple, which puts computers into "end of life" every few years, so you can't get any updates.

No, there you're pointing out the actual difference between Apple and Microsoft. I don't even remember the last time I directly paid for a Mac OS (10.6?). Nowadays it all comes down through the Mac App Store, a usb key, or a rescue partition. Periodically Apple discontinues which hardware sets it supports. You can still boot that same hardware on whatever the latest, most patched OS that will run on it - from Apple.…

There is a difference between being not supported and adding some code to prevent the OS from running on this hardware.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#27

Post by kodfodrasz »

cm2187 wrote: post #23
tekklloneer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft does extensive testing, not just on the "instruction set", but also the chipsets and surrounding ecosystems of the processor. It's annoying, and probably well within their ability to, but also not inexpensive.

But intel develops the chipset drivers, not microsoft.

and still they contain bugs sometimes, which need software workarounds. If interested in the topic you can surely find several examples in the Linux source codes as well.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#28

Post by iliketosleep »

jimmies wrote: post #4

The recent pop-up ads, automatically downloading of Windows 10 by Microsoft and bricking devices by Microsoft's friends seems like a good indication of the tipping point for many people. Stallman was right, then? About 10 years ago I made the jump from Windows to GNU+Linux. It was quite annoying because at the time I was still heavily invested in web design and such, so not having photoshop was quite a loss. Nowadays…

Microsoft's willingness to actively disrupt its users (whether it's through forced updates or artifical limitations) is indeed a tipping point for me. I always chose Windows for its convenience, and the fact that I could use it on my own terms. Clearly, this is no longer the case.

As for Stallman, there's a fine line between a madman and a genius. Reality has shown us that he definitely is not a madman.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#29

Post by 0x0 »

cm2187 wrote: post #19
0x0 wrote: post #11

I wonder if you can get a refund from Microsoft if you purchased windows 7/8 retail. Doesn't the system requirements usually just spell out "such and such CPU or better "? Suddenly the requirements have changed post-purchase to "such and such CPU or worse "? Also I wonder if this backfires on Intel. Why even bother providing 16bit and 32bit cpu modes if the CPUs aren't backwards compatible.

But is the CPU not compatible? I was under the impression Microsoft artificially creates an incompatibility in a shameless move to push users to an ad based OS. I wasn't aware that any cpu instruction had been removed that would prevent Win7 from running normally.

If it can't run windows 7 like older processors can, then I would argue it is not compatible.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#30

Post by faragon »

That is insane. One thing is having poor performance because of the lack of specific processor support, and another not being able to use it at all.

Is there a bug in those new processors with backwards compatibility, or is it an evil move from MS?

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