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Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

nautil.us

21–30 of 208 posts

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#21
post #4
post #2

While not every crazy person I know is a genius, every genius that I know is crazy. Pretty sure people that know me would place me in at least one of those categories as well.

What's the point of this comment without explaining why? If you're going to pat yourself on the back, don't only do it once, spill the beans! There's nothing wrong with your implication, just be able to back it up because it's a fairly large one.

> If you're going to pat yourself on the back

That's not how I read it.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#22
As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today.

The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are probably a bunch of psychopaths reading this too that don't even realize what they are.

I also scored in the "Genius" level on IQ tests in middle school (whatever the hell those are worth), and have made a non-trivial creative dent in the world.

The challenge is that, for the average person, if you hear "psychopath" or "sociopath" all you think is murderers and rapists. While most institutionalized (ie. caught) murderers and rapists do fit that profile, 90% of sociopaths are out there in the world and struggling to fit in. In fact almost half of CEOs would fit the diagnosis: Lack of empathy, remorse or guilt. Because that's all it is, it's not based on behavior (even though that is usually part of a formal diagnosis).

I have gone through my whole life with what in retrospect feels like a handicap that I have to make up for in every way. Not being able to feel empathy, remorse, guilt etc... means that every movie that the whole crowd is in tears at, every funeral of a family member, you are basically saying to yourself "What is with all these emotional people?" When relationships deteriorate because the best way you know how to deal with people is to act like you care, to manipulate them to thinking you care and then when the "mask of sanity" slips temporarily it blows your whole life apart.

Therein lies the rub, cause there is no sympathy there, and you know if you reveal who you are you won't get any breaks, because you are seen as a predator. So you spend your whole life studying people to see how they respond in certain situations so that, like a robot, you can try and emulate them - and because you're so smart you can actually pull it off. Genius level sociopaths/psychopaths look like the best of us because it takes that level of intellect to play a character 24 hours a day without taking a break.

And you don't reveal yourself - because what would the benefit be? You don't get a chance to be yourself because who you are is broken and ugly. So you continue to play the game and get into higher and higher stakes. You start to run a company, maybe even a big one with thousands of employees, you get married, have children etc...and your ability to manipulate and control just get wider and wider. And you see that your contemporaries are also psychopaths, so you think, well I guess that's what it takes to make a big impact. So your goals and ambitions, those "delusions" get bigger as you accomplish the "delusions" you previously had and see that you can accomplish a lot that others can't.

This is something that needs to be discussed because from where I stand, it's pretty clear that psychopaths like me "rule the world." It's not from a place of malice or hate though, but adaptation and if we can have that conversation and we can start to recognize and cope with psychopathy then I think everyone would be better off. It's tiring as hell to live this life.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#23

Truthfully, I've found that the real difference in intelligence between people isn't so large as many people think it is. People don't generally come along and solve "intractable" problems because they're so much smarter than all the people who've tacked the problem prior to them. Instead, they approach the problem in a way that is fundamentally different. This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make m…

> This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make major breakthroughs in a field, and "genius" is correlated with eccentricity. That would be nice, if it were true. But it isn't. Those are the stories that everybody likes though, a bit like the kid with a 25c fishing rod out-fishing adults with 100's of $ worth of gear. But in practice, most progress in most fields is made by insiders, one tedious bit at…

I didn't say most progress, I said breakthroughs. Let's look back at some of the biggest breakthroughs in history. Newton was by all accounts a profoundly odd human being who was highly secretive and kept to himself. Faraday came from poverty and made his discoveries with no grounding in the math of the day. Einstein made his big breakthroughs as a patent clerk working on his own. Darwin was also an outsider who worked on his own to develop his theory of evolution.

I'm not discounting the work of insiders, but their role is typically to tame the wilds first explored by the outsiders.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#24
post #5

I'm surprised Hemmingway was used as an example in this piece. He did believe he was being monitored or 'stalked' by the FBI. His wife/family did have him subjected to electro-shock therapy. Wasn't it later proven that Hemmingway was followed and 'harrassed' by the FBI?

He also had chronic backpain from multiple airplane crashes. Many people that suicide have chronic pain.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#25

Truthfully, I've found that the real difference in intelligence between people isn't so large as many people think it is. People don't generally come along and solve "intractable" problems because they're so much smarter than all the people who've tacked the problem prior to them. Instead, they approach the problem in a way that is fundamentally different. This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make m…

A different viewpoint is worth 80 IQ points.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#26

Truthfully, I've found that the real difference in intelligence between people isn't so large as many people think it is. People don't generally come along and solve "intractable" problems because they're so much smarter than all the people who've tacked the problem prior to them. Instead, they approach the problem in a way that is fundamentally different. This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make m…

> This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make major breakthroughs in a field, and "genius" is correlated with eccentricity. That would be nice, if it were true. But it isn't. Those are the stories that everybody likes though, a bit like the kid with a 25c fishing rod out-fishing adults with 100's of $ worth of gear. But in practice, most progress in most fields is made by insiders, one tedious bit at…

It is possible for most progress in a field to be made by insiders and most breakthroughs to be made by outsiders, if breakthroughs are single moment of uneven development.

If we use the terminology of Thomas Kuhn, most progress is in periods of "normal science" and most breakthroughs involve a "paradigm shift".

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#27
post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

For some reason (probably my whiskey) your self aggrandizing comment was quite entertaining even though normally I'm put off by "I am very smart" posts.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#28
post #18

The article attacks the idea that genius is normal, and it maybe suggests that it would be hard to be normal and genius. Taking the title at face value, Your not a genius if you think you are. I will say that dealing with people who don't have basic math, science, logic, physics, chemistry and philosophy understanding it's pretty easy to convince yourself that your both genius and crazy.

There are tons of geniuses that are perfectly normal. What his article was talking about was eccentric geniuses.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#29
post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

[deleted]

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#30
post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

It just wasn't meant to be.
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