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North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

nytimes.com

21–30 of 102 posts

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless it really is just bad welds and this is a great way to sow discord and paranoia. psy war > cyber war > actual war.

So then the NY Times is in bed with the CIA?

That's just what they want you to think. Wheels within wheels, man.

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#22
post #7

Is it wise for reporters that discover a covert program to disrupt North Korean missile launches to disclose the information? Seems like they want the credit for breaking a significant story more than they care about the delicate and dangerous situation with a rogue country that has nuclear weapons. I suggest they STFU.

Yeah, North Korea was just waiting for the NYT reporters to give them up-to-date intel on why their launches were failing. That's really the only reporting Kim Jong Un trusts, so I hear.

On a less sarcastic note, the fact that Western governments have such a difficult time gathering credible intelligence in North Korea is evidence that the North Koreans have a robust intelligence apparatus.

What the whole Abdul Khan episode brought to light some years back was how Western agencies underestimated the technological and political skill and motivation of many so-called "third world" countries. Arguably that blind spot was caused by the deep-seated racism and cultural elitism of Western countries. There were plenty of opportunities to discover the illicit trade; we just weren't convinced they were capable of it, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Our leaders never took it seriously because their expectations were that these countries were still too backwards.

Yet another example of why we really need to face prejudice head on. We simply can't accurately assess the state of things if we're blinded by so many poor assumptions, particularly the ones girded by racist attitudes.

If American culture continues casting Asians as uncreative copycats; Muslims as radical fundamentalists; Africans as irredeemably corrupt; and South Americans as hopelessly socialist; then we're in for decades of more wild and very much unwelcome surprise.

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#23

If we look past the North Korean missile program, has the U.S. opened Pandora's box by using malware to affect another country's missile launch? We used to talk about Stuxnet infecting Iran's underground nuclear computer systems which destabilized their centrifuges, but now we're talking about malware affecting the "left of launch" of a missile. If this is the future of stopping a potential nuclear attack from anothe…

We don't know what other possible defenses are in place, this may just be the method preferred at this stage in missile development or perhaps the NY Times just hasn't identified others yet. We may also have other vectors on the weapon itself. Perhaps another software bug like this or Stuxnet and/or more conventional missile defense technologies.

Like anything else in cyber security it is important to understand what is possible to defend oneself against it. Do you think the Russians and Chinese would sit idly by if we did not participate in cyber warfare? With regard to MAD any nuclear strategy has to be based on the expectation of other parties interfering with the proper operation of our arsenal. This is why the nuclear triad exists. Is this a new vector? Maybe. Is it so different from designing missiles that are fire-and forget or using launch codes in the first place?

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#24

If we look past the North Korean missile program, has the U.S. opened Pandora's box by using malware to affect another country's missile launch? We used to talk about Stuxnet infecting Iran's underground nuclear computer systems which destabilized their centrifuges, but now we're talking about malware affecting the "left of launch" of a missile. If this is the future of stopping a potential nuclear attack from anothe…

> Are we not inviting other major powers to play around in our nuclear systems?

Not really. We're just acknowledging the fact that they can and will.

I don't believe the US has the most advanced "cyberwarfare" military apparatus at this time... but that's another topic.

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#25
post #22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, North Korea was just waiting for the NYT reporters to give them up-to-date intel on why their launches were failing. That's really the only reporting Kim Jong Un trusts, so I hear.

On a less sarcastic note, the fact that Western governments have such a difficult time gathering credible intelligence in North Korea is evidence that the North Koreans have a robust intelligence apparatus. What the whole Abdul Khan episode brought to light some years back was how Western agencies underestimated the technological and political skill and motivation of many so-called "third world" countries. Arguably t…

That's a lot of assumptions. You could say that the lack of another 9/11 type attack in recent history and the high failure rate of these missiles shows that the US Intelligence community has already overcome this prejudice.

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#26
post #22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, North Korea was just waiting for the NYT reporters to give them up-to-date intel on why their launches were failing. That's really the only reporting Kim Jong Un trusts, so I hear.

On a less sarcastic note, the fact that Western governments have such a difficult time gathering credible intelligence in North Korea is evidence that the North Koreans have a robust intelligence apparatus. What the whole Abdul Khan episode brought to light some years back was how Western agencies underestimated the technological and political skill and motivation of many so-called "third world" countries. Arguably t…

None of the "deep-seated racism and cultural elitism" you cite is at all unique to Western countries.

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#27
post #25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a less sarcastic note, the fact that Western governments have such a difficult time gathering credible intelligence in North Korea is evidence that the North Koreans have a robust intelligence apparatus. What the whole Abdul Khan episode brought to light some years back was how Western agencies underestimated the technological and political skill and motivation of many so-called "third world" countries. Arguably t…

That's a lot of assumptions. You could say that the lack of another 9/11 type attack in recent history and the high failure rate of these missiles shows that the US Intelligence community has already overcome this prejudice.

I think technocrats do a better job of overcoming it, if only because it's harder to ignore what's staring you in the face, and they're the ones with their noses to the ground.

But priorities are set by the elites. We rarely encounter "slam dunks" that force leaders' hands. And so our strategic direction relies heavily on the higher-ups making decisions that are still highly susceptible to bias. Heck, we elect leaders precisely because of their bias--Obama because we thought he had an inside-line on the Muslim thing, Trump because we hate Muslims. I exaggerate but it's not far from the truth.

That's why popular culture can be so critical to foreign policy. Two decades into peak globalization, there's no way to hide these things. This isn't the Cold War. Leaders can't do the smart thing while paying lip service to the electorates' prejudices. Even if we could stop all the leaks in the U.S. government, you can't hide the consequences of policy.

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless it really is just bad welds and this is a great way to sow discord and paranoia. psy war > cyber war > actual war.

So then the NY Times is in bed with the CIA?

> So then the NY Times is in bed with the CIA?

Or perhaps CIA totally fooled NY times?

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless it really is just bad welds and this is a great way to sow discord and paranoia. psy war > cyber war > actual war.

So then the NY Times is in bed with the CIA?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird and its successors. Yes. You may find Noam Chomsky's views on the subject enlightening.

Will go into more detail after Kim Fatty III gets his.

Re: North Korea’s Missile Launches Were Failing Too Often

#30

If we look past the North Korean missile program, has the U.S. opened Pandora's box by using malware to affect another country's missile launch? We used to talk about Stuxnet infecting Iran's underground nuclear computer systems which destabilized their centrifuges, but now we're talking about malware affecting the "left of launch" of a missile. If this is the future of stopping a potential nuclear attack from anothe…

To be fair, the Russians got their choice of president in the US. So it is already going both ways.

It's not nuclear systems, but it's quite an achievement.

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