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Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

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21–30 of 72 posts

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#21
post #2

Cut bait now. This problem will only get worse for you.

This is definitely an option that should be considered.

I had a similar situation: I was moonlighting on a very promising startup for 2 years. My partners were supposed to do the fundraising, biz/development, or pitch in money. But it didn't happen at a level that I consider competitive. In the end things started to get worse: they don't understand the tech components very well but still had strong opinions. And that starts to become a -ve contribution. So I split from them and I am working on a few things on my own. Looking back in hindsight I feel vindicated.

I'd recommend that you cover all the conversation topics that others have suggested above. If it does not work out then cut your losses and move on. It may seem like a big deal after having invested time and emotions with this person but you should do what is right for you.

Asides: I feel that if an idea involves tech development then techies should work on it by themselves for a few months and then bring in the biz/dev guys. That way you know exactly what you are looking for and bring in the right guys that suit your business (connections, industry knowledge, etc.). Moreover you get to evaluate the biz/dev guys more closely since you can be with them when then demo the prototype. The only caveat here is that you need to have some prior startup experience so you can sort out the high level business aspects (users, customers, reveune models, etc.) on your own before you specialize your code/prototype too deeply.

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#22
You are asking about one of my favorites topics (co-founders)...

First of all, understand that he needs to quit. When someone is concerned enough that they post online, it means the situation is bad. So ignore any advice on improving his sales skills.

It's hard to fire your friends (been there, done that). Depending on your relationship, do it nicely, with transitions. Ideally, you want to have a frank discussion where the joint conclusion is that he is not working out and should stop. That's not that hard. If he is genuinely trying to help the business, show him that by getting someone else on board, the business will be better off.

Finally, there is the issue of stocks. Hopefully you had vesting in place. So one way is to go by that agreement. He worked 1 year out of 4, and hopefully you didn't split 50/50. So if you had split originally 66/33 for instance, you'd now be at 88% for you, and less than 12% for him. Which to me is sounds about fair. He did do stuff for a year, right?

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#23
Get out. Start a new idea, or get a job.

But if you insist on continuing, give him the straight facts: You are able to effectively contribute something of value (the tech), and he is not (there is the sales, but he's not able to do it). Therefore, he needs to let you bring in a real sales person (who can be paid on commission, and maybe become another owner as well since the pay will stink at first). This is to give the business a chance at success. Even in this scenario all three of you will probably need to find day jobs, especially the current co-founder since he won't be allowed to get any of the profits until he figures out how he can contribute. And any new ownership given to a new sales person (if you do give them any ownership, that is) will come out of your current partner's share. And from today forward, your current partner will not be counted as a continuing contributor - except maybe very minimally as an advisor, if that is worth anything.

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#24
"My co-founder sux. I met a friend, with whom I founded a company. He is the tech guy, I do the sales. Now he is "finished" with the service, but it isn't the quality we need and doesn't have the features our customers want. It's very tough to sell this beast. He always argues that those are the best features and won't implement what customers want as they do not know what they need. He's always comparing his work to a competitor who gets 10x better deals, but clearly his tech stuff is not in the same league! What should I do? Should I dump him? Thanks troubled2"

Just for thoughts.

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#26
post #3

First off you should be talking to him and not to us, have you voiced your concerns? What was his response? Come up with a plan on how he can do better and what you expect from him. If he doesn't execute on that plan then it's time to talk about buying out his share or getting someone else to buy it out. Do you have a partner agreement? What are your options?

We have spoken on the sales issue repeatedly. He is currently suggesting that I too join sales and let the tech on a slow burner. Sadly I am not a start salesman, and even if I was. I don't want to be pulling the wagon all alone. Buying wise, we both are at the end of our savings, no one can afford to buy the other. And there currently doesn't seem to be any funds raising in sight.

But a third party could buy into it. If the company has real potential then I would look for a strong business/sales person who might be interested in buying your partner out. It shouldn't cost too much if you aren't making that much money, and this way you know the new partner is serious since he is putting money into it.

I would talk to your partner and say "let's come up with a timeline where you hit these goals or we look for a third-party person to buy you out". If he can hit those goals, or hit those goals with the help of a commission only salesperson then your problem is solved. If not you start looking for a third-party.

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#27
Identification of the real cause of the problem is your top priority.

Rather than some of the suggestions in this thread that would most likely result in an unpleasant ending of your venture I'd suggest that both you and your co-founder seek help from a third party you both trust to give you good advice, and that has relevant experience.

Another thing you should do is talk to your customers, and figure out what it is that you can do to make the sales work more effective.

You've failed to do the 'verify' part earlier on in your relationship when you could have done it without cost, so now you're stuck with the consequences of the 'trust' bit. Don't worry too much about it, it happens to all of us.

I'm assuming your product is business-to-business because you mention direct sales to clients, selling in that world is a skill.

So, not all is hopeless here, skills can be improved and even if you're not selling nearly as good as you should be you and your partner are selling something, now you need to identify where in the sales process you drop the ball and correct that.

Rinse, repeat, and it should end out ok at some point.

Attempting to remove your partner by force or to quit by walking out of it is going to destroy your company and your investment with it.

Probably your partner is just as disappointed as you are, you have a common goal here so work together to get it solved, it's far from hopeless at this stage.

0 sales or no product that would be a real problem, some sales and a product that is at least acceptable to some customers sounds like a fixable situation to me (at least, without much more knowledge).

Another alternative that I haven't seen suggested yet is find a buyer for the whole project.

edit: Maybe you should talk to flavio87, see if he's interested in taking over your project, from what I gather he's doing something comparable (but he's been at it only for about 2 months iirc).

See this posting by him:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1188524

best of luck.

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#28
post #3

First off you should be talking to him and not to us, have you voiced your concerns? What was his response? Come up with a plan on how he can do better and what you expect from him. If he doesn't execute on that plan then it's time to talk about buying out his share or getting someone else to buy it out. Do you have a partner agreement? What are your options?

We have spoken on the sales issue repeatedly. He is currently suggesting that I too join sales and let the tech on a slow burner. Sadly I am not a start salesman, and even if I was. I don't want to be pulling the wagon all alone. Buying wise, we both are at the end of our savings, no one can afford to buy the other. And there currently doesn't seem to be any funds raising in sight.

A buy out doesn't have to be in cash. Look right now you have very little but likely some sweat equity and your product isn't really worth much.

Offer him some shares or options in the future company but tell him this isn't working out. He'll say he already owns "half" but the truth is if you walk away he likely doesn't have a damn thing.

Offer him some equity to walk away or tell him you're quitting.

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#29
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you bring in a salesperson that works exclusively on commission? What kind of price range does your product fit into?

We are working on that now. It might give us more breathing air but still will keep us with a CEO (him) that I cannot trust professionaly.

In a two man company there is no CEO.

Re: Ask HN: My co-founder sux. What can I do ?

#30
post #19

Useful links: http://vimeo.com/11491691 http://danieltenner.com/posts/0005-starting-up-with-a-friend... Some thoughts: Generally, if sales is hard, it's also because of the product development. Don't blame all of it on him, your product is not as amazing as you might think.

+1 for the video.

My main takeaway from it was don't assume that you and your co-founder are on the same wavelength - write down explicitly what you are agreeing on, and be concrete with figures e.g. "I'm willing to work 8 hours per day, 6 days per week", or "I'm happy to consider this successful if I make $100,000/year" etc

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