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Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

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21–30 of 371 posts

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#21
This sounds extremely scummy, and if the story really is as simple as this article tells it I don't understand how the CEO of this company can look at himself in the mirror.

I think a great example of an app that lets me give positive feedback to service people is Uber. They let you get a ride ASAP with as little decision making as possible, and then you can rate it after you get where you're going and you have some down time. If they let me, I would probably leave a tip along with my good ratings. Everything else is invisible: I have no idea if there's a "service fee" included in the ride fare. They don't make me worry about it. They definitely don't make drivers have to hand out paper flyers in order to feed their family.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#22
Is Instacart paying significantly lower via this new system (aside from the UX advantage like Uber)? Assuming they have a reasonable proportion of couriers:orders and the pay change here is substantial, this seems like it could backfire if many couriers stop delivering / delivering as often, given how easy it is to switch to GrubHub, DoorDash, Postmates, et cetera.

Instacart apparently has a surge-like system called "busy pricing." It'll be interesting to see whether that'll now occur more or whether they can actually retain their couriers (assuming they don't have an excess).

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#24
I think Instacart's other justification for this is that multiple people are now involved in procuring your groceries. One person shops and another delivers. If you tip in cash, the shopper gets nothing.

Can't speak to if this is their real motive, but does seem to be in line with other criticisms of tipping (e.g. waitresses making much more than kitchen staff).

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#25
Before Instacart was on the scene, my brother and I thought of about a similar service. My brother in his college days used to be a pizza delivery driver, so he had the "real world" experience. Over the weekend, I quickly created a simple dropwizard java jar that would take in two variables - number of drivers, and number of orders. Everything else was randomized to be close to reality - such as delivery times, routes, etc. To be clear this was a bare bone, CLI application. I would run the service for 5 minutes, and collect the metrics. One thing was clear as mud, the more we scale up, the higher the loss. The thing was that my brother kept telling me that I am paying too less to my drivers, and that no one would work for me at that rate. Also, I will admit that my algorithm was a "simple Fed-ex" style hub-spoke model.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#26

Is it possible to have a value-added services company that doesn't exploit its labor? Is your answer going to be self-driving cars? What about alternatives that don't fundamentally replace the labor? In my opinion, it is impossible to achieve venture capital goals and pay service labor commensurate to the value it delivers.

I think this argument takes a relatively small set of companies a generalizes their exploits across the larger economy. Isn't it the case that most service companies in the west do not exploit it's labor?

The people involved in customizing your car configuration prior to it being delivered to the dealership are not, to my knowledge, exploited. Most laundromats in my area do bag service, those workers don't seem to be exploited. I feel sure that the list goes on.

There are some common threads amongst companies that are exploiting their workers:

1. They are b2c companies. 2. Most seem to be venture backed. 3. The worker they employ are mostly unskilled. 4. The law doesn't seem view the current treatment of these employees as illegal in any way.

#1 seems most significant to me, the price that a critical mass of consumers are willing to pay for the value that unskilled workers can provide seems to be too low to build a large business on the back of.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#27
post #10
post #8

They have tens of thousands of customers, yet are worth multiple billions of dollars (valued at $2bn in 2015.) That's just incredible. Let's say they have 100k customers who each use the service every week. That's 5.2m orders per year. Let's say $100 per order, to be generous. At a 10% service fee, that's $50m for a two-year-old 40x revenue multiple. Before paying their contracted workforce. This does not make sense.…

It makes a lot of sense if you know how perverse financial markets are. The difference between those millions and those billions is the perceived potential of the company. All you need is some investment banker becoming convinced that noone wants to visit physical stores anymore, and suddenly money starts pouring into companies supporting that view of the future, almost regardless of whether they are actually profita…

[deleted]

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#29
post #8

They have tens of thousands of customers, yet are worth multiple billions of dollars (valued at $2bn in 2015.) That's just incredible. Let's say they have 100k customers who each use the service every week. That's 5.2m orders per year. Let's say $100 per order, to be generous. At a 10% service fee, that's $50m for a two-year-old 40x revenue multiple. Before paying their contracted workforce. This does not make sense.…

Say the average wage is $10/hour. If it takes one hour to go and do that shopping, I break even by paying someone else that $10, if I value my leisure time as equivalent to my wage.

More likely, most Instacart customers earn much more than $10/hour. For someone with a busy work schedule, there might be 2 hours of leisure time available per day during the week. This means that by using Instacart I increase my after-work leisure time by 10-20% per week.

If you consider that grocery stores are more crowded during the weekend, and assume 10 hours per day of leisure time, someone who places one order per week likely increases weekend leisure time by 10%.

Since stores close early on Sunday, having Instacart do the shopping on Monday instead can make a weekend getaway possible that would otherwise have had to end in time for that Sunday shopping trip.

I'm sure some people prefer to wander through the store filling up a cart, searching for difficult-to-find items and waiting behind several people for the checkout clerk to finish bagging all their orders. I do not.

I've also found that Instacart sorts items by price, so it's easy to fill the virtual cart without falling victim to all the end-cap advertising and impulse purchase scams that the stores have going. When I go to a physical store I frequently end up buying things I didn't really intend to, but with Instacart, I only end up with the things I actually wanted.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#30
post #13
post #8

They have tens of thousands of customers, yet are worth multiple billions of dollars (valued at $2bn in 2015.) That's just incredible. Let's say they have 100k customers who each use the service every week. That's 5.2m orders per year. Let's say $100 per order, to be generous. At a 10% service fee, that's $50m for a two-year-old 40x revenue multiple. Before paying their contracted workforce. This does not make sense.…

It's basically Webvan 3.0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webvan

I was thinking of Kozmo.com which funnily enough also went defunct in 2001.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozmo.com

Although they did more than just food.

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