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Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

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21–30 of 48 posts

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#21
post #17
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac is dead for developers and pro users if this is the case. My current Mac will be my last, and I'll be happy to give my money to Dell instead and anyone else selling more open hardware. One of our devs just got a new XPS 15. It's a gorgeous machine. Amazing. First time I've envied a non-Apple machine since the early 2000s. I still marginally prefer the Mac track pad but the rest is on par or better.

Yeah, I think they'll lose 99.5% developer mindshare as well. Which is the one thing Ballmer got right. Don't underestimate the value of developer support for a platform like iOS.

developers go where there is money to be made. only having xcode on osx/macos hasn't hurt apple a bit.

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think they'll lose 99.5% developer mindshare as well. Which is the one thing Ballmer got right. Don't underestimate the value of developer support for a platform like iOS.

developers go where there is money to be made. only having xcode on osx/macos hasn't hurt apple a bit.

Developers also very often go where the system is convenient and open and developer-friendly, see: the rise of linux, php, rails, node, mysql, wordpress, git; and android vs windows phone/mobile.

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#23
They better have ARM laptops done or nearly so. If they didn't, I would conclude that they have no idea what the fuck they're doing anymore.

Although if the software is through the Mac App Store only, then... well, it won't be a very useful device. I hope that they're looking to replace the Macbook with an ARM device, not create a new Chromebook.

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#24
post #14

If the future is supposedly going to be this locked down, I wonder what will happen to the internet when there is no hardware left where you can develop stuff like apache-httpd and php and mysqld.

Nothing stopping you from installing Blink Shell or Prompt on your iPad-like device and connecting to a GCE instance or your own linux server to work on those things.

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#25
post #16
post #14

If the future is supposedly going to be this locked down, I wonder what will happen to the internet when there is no hardware left where you can develop stuff like apache-httpd and php and mysqld.

Mac is dead for developers and pro users if this is the case. My current Mac will be my last, and I'll be happy to give my money to Dell instead and anyone else selling more open hardware. One of our devs just got a new XPS 15. It's a gorgeous machine. Amazing. First time I've envied a non-Apple machine since the early 2000s. I still marginally prefer the Mac track pad but the rest is on par or better.

Can confirm. I sold my MBP and bought myself one of the new Dell 15" developer editions. Trackpad is about on par with the prior physically-clicking mac trackpads. I run Fedora and the only thing that doesn't work is hot-plugging the Ethernet adapter. Otherwise all the usual Linux pitfalls like sleep/wake, wifi, hidpi, touch screen, etc. work fine out of the box. No plans to switch away.

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#26
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, in fact there's even more to it then that. Particularly at Apple's scale, maintaining a codebase across multiple architectures internally, even if there is absolutely zero foreseeable intention to use them, offers significant value. Strategically of course it creates some hedge against over dependence on any single supplier, it's not just "the Mac market falling apart" so much as Intel/AMD dropping the ball…

Should this apply to cloud provider portability?

Good question. Ideally it should... operating on Apple's scale, it would be a great idea to have their cloud based solutions running on multiple platforms to reduce dependency/vendor lock-in.

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#27
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

developers go where there is money to be made. only having xcode on osx/macos hasn't hurt apple a bit.

Developers also very often go where the system is convenient and open and developer-friendly, see: the rise of linux, php, rails, node, mysql, wordpress, git; and android vs windows phone/mobile.

On server I think this is correct. On consumer devices this is really not the case. Has any platform with a huge consumer base ever died by being abandoned by developers first, as opposed to device owners?

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#28
I'm sure they will still have a compiler on the system -- it has to be possible to compile code for this machine from source and run it ...

As I think about it -- wouldn't app store (if well run, then it provides the best possible security for distribution of binaries without source code and the most consumer friendly commercial licensing model) + open source eco-system (self-compiled -- source only distribution) pretty much the best possible world for users? There is (kind of) an open-source argument for making binary distribution without source onerous or impossible...

Perhaps they'll bundle or distribute an official version of something like homebrew to make installing open-source software as easy as possible and maybe even provide a way for binaries generated from these packages to become signed and distributed as binaries as an optimization?

I don't think I would mind app-store being the only way to get pre-compiled binaries if augmented with a well-supported open-source ecosystem for utilities that need to venture beyond the capabilities of the app-store sandbox. There is a technical argument for making any software that needs to operate beyond the sandbox subject to source code auditing simply because of the potential attack surface ... I wouldn't necessarily mind if subscription pricing was the only business model for such sandbox-spanning utilities -- continuance maintenance (and ongoing revenue) for software that works beyond the sandbox is needed from a security perspective ...

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

developers go where there is money to be made. only having xcode on osx/macos hasn't hurt apple a bit.

Developers also very often go where the system is convenient and open and developer-friendly, see: the rise of linux, php, rails, node, mysql, wordpress, git; and android vs windows phone/mobile.

Isn't Apple still in the better position here? Since it comes with Unix-friendly tools, and most of the languages and tools you listed.

Re: Apple already has several ARM powered laptops drifting around internally

#30
post #29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers also very often go where the system is convenient and open and developer-friendly, see: the rise of linux, php, rails, node, mysql, wordpress, git; and android vs windows phone/mobile.

Isn't Apple still in the better position here? Since it comes with Unix-friendly tools, and most of the languages and tools you listed.

Do you think you'll be able to use those tools in a gatekeeper-MAS-only world? Or if Apple ships prebuilt versions, how well supported will they be by the authors of those tools if they can't develop and compile new versions on the platform on their own?

For a preview of the future, try this one on macOS 10.12 today:

% lldb --one-line run /usr/bin/python

spoiler:

  Current executable set to '/usr/bin/python' (x86_64).
  error: process exited with status -1 (cannot attach to process due to System Integrity Protection)
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