Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

blog.codinghorror.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 276 posts

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#21

Post by wingerlang »

dredmorbius wrote: post #19
wingerlang wrote: post #3

> And he signed an executive order that literally, not figuratively, banned Muslims from entering the US. Isn't "banned muslims" the wrong choice of words here? You could enter US as a muslim from e.g. Malaysia still.

No. No it is not. "Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘legally’" “How did the president decide the seven countries?” she asked. “Okay, talk to me.” “I'll tell you the whole history of it,” Giuliani responded eagerly. “So when [Trump] first announced it, he said, 'Muslim ban.' He called me up. He said, 'Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.'"…

Fair enough, but it is still not a literal ban is it? I repeat my statement as a question: as a muslim from e.g. Malaysia, you can still enter US - right?

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#22

Post by verbify »

MisterWebz wrote: post #8

Bombing predominately Muslim countries, overthrowing governments and covert black sites where Muslims get tortured. These are things that are acceptable, but a 90-day ban on immigrants coming from war-torn countries, that's a step too far? Has everyone seriously lost their mind?

Iran is not a war-torn country.

And this doesn't just ban immigrants, it bans green-card and visa holders too.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#23

Post by MisterWebz »

varjag wrote: post #12
MisterWebz wrote: post #8

Bombing predominately Muslim countries, overthrowing governments and covert black sites where Muslims get tortured. These are things that are acceptable, but a 90-day ban on immigrants coming from war-torn countries, that's a step too far? Has everyone seriously lost their mind?

You are arguing strawman. Most people who are anti-ban were also against Iraq war and waterboarding.

Yet people seemed to be awfully calm when Obama was droning weddings. I'm not saying we should've put so much hate towards Obama as well, I'm saying we should put things into perspective.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#24

Post by levlaz »

geff82 wrote: post #18
levlaz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bombing predominately Muslim countries, overthrowing governments and covert black sites where Muslims get tortured. Who is saying that this is acceptable? > 90-day ban on immigrants coming from war-torn countries I think the key issue here is that this ban includes valid Green Card holders and people who have Visas. This means that they have already spent up to two years being vetted. This policy makes no sense. If…

Stopping issuing visas in itself would be bad for US reputation. I know many Iranians who really work hard to get a visa for the USA to visit the country they long for at least once in their life. As there is no US embassy in Iran (for good reasons, by the way), they usually have to travel to Turkey at least twice. One couple I know came to Germany for two weeks just to get their visa from the American consulate here…

Totally agree that it is not the right move. But that policy at least would not have been so strongly contended.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#25

Post by test1235 »

aedron wrote: post #5

You know what a lot of people consider worse than Donald Trump? The status quo. That's what I feel is missing in all this indignation - where were you before? The political system has been deeply broken for decades, with the same unjust policies being pursued regardless of which public face was on it - imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad, economic inequality at home. All sold to the public with glib mark…

"Better the devil you know" vs "Out of the frying pan into the fire"

Maybe change was needed, but this is so much worse than before.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#27

Post by estsauver »

aswerty wrote: post #14

This is the second political post I've seen sky rocket on HN this morning. I assume a mod intervened on the last one since it disappeared rather quickly. Do we really want to start political discussions in HN? Politics creates enough friction between people in real life let alone discussions with strangers over the internet.

I think so.

Communities that aren't willing to deal with this tragedy that's rapidly unfolding in America aren't communities I want to be a part of.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#29

Post by dredmorbius »

MisterWebz wrote: post #23
varjag wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are arguing strawman. Most people who are anti-ban were also against Iraq war and waterboarding.

Yet people seemed to be awfully calm when Obama was droning weddings. I'm not saying we should've put so much hate towards Obama as well, I'm saying we should put things into perspective.

Democracy Now, "Drone Attacks", 152 results, all but two since 2009, overwhelmingly negative.

http://m.democracynow.org/tags/282

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#30

Post by thecopy »

wingerlang wrote: post #21
dredmorbius wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. No it is not. "Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘legally’" “How did the president decide the seven countries?” she asked. “Okay, talk to me.” “I'll tell you the whole history of it,” Giuliani responded eagerly. “So when [Trump] first announced it, he said, 'Muslim ban.' He called me up. He said, 'Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.'"…

Fair enough, but it is still not a literal ban is it? I repeat my statement as a question: as a muslim from e.g. Malaysia, you can still enter US - right?

Yes, you can. Trump activated a policy invented and signed into law by Obama, he did not choose the countries himself.
Post reply on HN