Building affordable housing • Hacker News Board

Re: Building affordable housing

#21

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:04 AM UTC

_m8fo wrote: post #17

ghaff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrelevant to what? The price of attractive but very compact housing on cheap land away from population centers people want to live around basically isn't a problem for any but a minuscule slice of the population. It certainly doesn't address any issue that a potential tech worker in the bay area or NYC has.

Did you even read the article? This has nothing to do with big cities. The author explains how the development of infrastructure, notably highways changed the dynamic to sprawling suburbia and how suburban "nodes" link to the main metroplex in "second-tier cities." This was because of the fact that you can just drive further and keep your job. Affordable housing requires affordable land. Big cities almost by definiti…

Yes, I read the article. All the handwaving about maybe land on the fringe... but maybe that would actually be more expensive because of land use restrictions... and utilities would have to happen somehow but not clear about the costs.

>Affordable housing requires affordable land. Big cities almost by definition do not have affordable land, therefore the housing will never be affordable in the way the author is asserting.

I agree. My assumption was that, given this context, he was talking about the outlying areas of cities people were interested in. Of course, otherwise, land prices are not the issue and housing construction prices aren't really the issue either.

Re: Building affordable housing

#22

Post by nosuchthing » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:06 AM UTC

_m8fo wrote: post #7

Tiny homes are 150 to 250 square feet homes that that can be built anywhere from ~$20,000 to ~$50,000. The person who figures out how to mass produce these houses (each one is only about maybe the size of two RVs) for ~$10,000 will change this world.

Why not mobile?

Elio motors designed an enclosed motorcycle for ~$7300.

Assuming a design like an enclosed TukTuk moped [1], a mini motor home would actually change the world overnight.

[1] http://www.designboom.com/design/cornelius-comanns-bufalino/

Re: Building affordable housing

#23

Post by kevinburke » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:08 AM UTC

Here's one proposal for affordable housing in San Francisco: modular units that are extremely cheap to assemble and can be combined into a much larger building.

The developer can have them here instantly and wants to build on a plot near Cesar Chavez and rent to the city. The city's not interested because the buildings are not built here and they'd be a little more expensive than existing SRO's.

http://sf.curbed.com/2016/10/31/13481254/micropad-tour-patri...

Re: Building affordable housing

#24

Post by verg » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:09 AM UTC

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #5

In every American city I know, 80%-90% of the cost of an existing home is the lot, not the house. I don't know how to overcome this, but I understand it is caused by politics, suggesting it needs a political solution. When Florida was abuilding like crazy after WWII for the next 25 years, the lot was usually about 10%.

If only there were some technology that would allow multiple homes to exist on a single lot...

Re: Building affordable housing

#25

Post by cylinder » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:10 AM UTC

verg wrote: post #24

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #5

In every American city I know, 80%-90% of the cost of an existing home is the lot, not the house. I don't know how to overcome this, but I understand it is caused by politics, suggesting it needs a political solution. When Florida was abuilding like crazy after WWII for the next 25 years, the lot was usually about 10%.

If only there were some technology that would allow multiple homes to exist on a single lot...

That would just be priced into the lot.

People are going to spend 35-50% of their incomes on housing.

Re: Building affordable housing

#26

Post by baursak » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:14 AM UTC

_m8fo wrote: post #7

Tiny homes are 150 to 250 square feet homes that that can be built anywhere from ~$20,000 to ~$50,000. The person who figures out how to mass produce these houses (each one is only about maybe the size of two RVs) for ~$10,000 will change this world.

In places were housing is expensive, land will be the majority of the cost. In places where land is cheap, housing is already not expensive.

The way to affordable housing is high density, mid-to-high rise condos.

Re: Building affordable housing

#27

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:28 AM UTC

TamDenholm wrote: post #2

I think the lack of entry level housing is a massive reason the tiny house movement has become so popular. I think people are willing to reevaluate the space they require to live in so as not to spend a life paying off debt.

Discussion of tiny houses and pod apartments has become popular (not so much the things themselves) because they offer this tantalizing hope that reducing living space size will decrease rent/mortgage proportionately.

It doesn't for all sort of reasons.

Basic functional blocks like bathrooms and kitchens can only be made so small. And once one graduates from college, shared spaces seem a lot less attractive.

Re: Building affordable housing

#28

Post by erentz » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:29 AM UTC

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #5

In every American city I know, 80%-90% of the cost of an existing home is the lot, not the house. I don't know how to overcome this, but I understand it is caused by politics, suggesting it needs a political solution. When Florida was abuilding like crazy after WWII for the next 25 years, the lot was usually about 10%.

Where is this? In Seattle the cost of construction is around $250-300 per sqft assuming mid-range quality of materials and a flat(-ish) site. You'd need to spend between $200-$500k to buy a lot in Seattle. So a reasonable 2,000 sqft house is going to be anywhere from 70-50% of the cost.

Re: Building affordable housing

#29

Post by lawpoop » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 12:38 AM UTC

_m8fo wrote: post #7

Tiny homes are 150 to 250 square feet homes that that can be built anywhere from ~$20,000 to ~$50,000. The person who figures out how to mass produce these houses (each one is only about maybe the size of two RVs) for ~$10,000 will change this world.

We already have them; they're called mobile homes.

Re: Building affordable housing

#30

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 1:01 AM UTC

athenot wrote: post #4

One thing that I've seen quite a bit in Europe is people buying "unfinished" homes. They pay a builder to build a concrete structure with a tile roof, and get it plumbed and wired up to code. But then all the interior finishings (and sometimes even the doors/windows) are done by the owners, by trading a couple years of spare time for substantial cost savings.

That is the norm in china. In fact, renovated homes cost less than unrenovated ones because no one trusts anyone else's renovation (lots of cheap toxic crap), so it is understood that new owners would re renovate anyways. Basically, everyone just wants a concrete box. Renovations are quite cheap and quick however with the appropriate migrant worker (though see above, you have to be careful they don't use cheap toxic crap).