Live data from Hacker News

Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

jeffersonheard.github.io

21–30 of 50 posts

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#21
post #16
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like 'analyst' in how easily it is thrown around. Calling a built in function in python or R is just about equivalent to calling one in Excel. Sure, you can claim that folks need to know more about what is going on, but honestly, how many have actually gone through the work of deriving the functions they're calling to begin with?

>how many have actually gone through the work of deriving the functions they're calling to begin with? Why would you waste your time re-inventing a wheel. A good data scientist isn't good because he/she can ace shitty trivia, he/she is good because they know the right question to ask.

That's only part of it. A good data scientist is also good because they know how to answer hard questions.

In those situations math isn't "shitty trivia," but instead a tool to be leveraged against those hard questions.

You can consider the derivation of SVD to be shitty trivia while throwing np.linalg.svd around while engineering features. That's fine! Good luck visualizing that data in a meaningful way, or dealing with non-linear data, if you're ignoring that "shitty trivia."

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#22
post #4
post #2

'Data scientist' is just title inflation by statisticians.

Some say [0] it's title deflation for statisticians. [0] http://bactra.org/weblog/925.html

"Statisticians" taught everyone NHST, and relegated bayesian probability to the appendix for decades. Once you realize what has happened there, you will view that title with very little respect.

I am glad to see machine learning, ai, "data science", whatever, grow as a separate field. The statistics programs had their chance.

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#23
The roles of statistician and data scientist are not substitutes but more like complements. This guy definitely is a data scientist. Here's some ways to tell:

- Works on non-mission-critical components, e.g. he's not doing statistics for the when the wing will fall off your airplane, but he can help you figure out business problems more open to interpretation, e.g. subject line open rates.

- His publishing tools favor flair over convention, e.g. Ctrl+f for "latex" has zero results, but he does have D3, C3, Bokeh, surprisingly no tableau.

- Not sure he even references a single classical statistics package. The vast majority of people publishing in social sciences or "old school" life sciences are using Minitab, JMP, R, or SAS (correct me if I'm wrong, please, it's an outsider's perspective).

This skillset is not inherently "cutting edge!"- or deceptively "all talk, no walk". They really are completely different roles, that use some of the same tools and formulas and jargon. To cut to the heart of it: When a company builds a plane and says "I wonder how unlikely it would be for the wing to fall off?" that creates the demand for a statistician. When a company is trying to out-compete others, or maximize profit/charitable-effectiveness, often in a service or a field that is heavily influenced with human psychology, that creates the potential for a data scientist to add value.

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#24

The roles of statistician and data scientist are not substitutes but more like complements. This guy definitely is a data scientist. Here's some ways to tell: - Works on non-mission-critical components, e.g. he's not doing statistics for the when the wing will fall off your airplane, but he can help you figure out business problems more open to interpretation, e.g. subject line open rates. - His publishing tools favo…

I knew I was forgetting packages. I do in fact use Tableau. Will add it. Thanks for the catch!

As for LaTeX, it would have never occurred to me to add it. I have no idea why not, but it doesn't. Maybe because it feels more like a chore than a tool. It's like an anti-tool. I mean, I do or did in the recent past use LaTeX, but in more recent years I would farm that out to someone junior to me who hadn't worked with it for long enough to prefer pouring bleach in their ears to being faced with tweaking one more broken LaTeX template.

I probably should include classical stats packages. They really should go in here. But I've been coding since I was a kid and typically eschewed classical stats and math packages because of my perception that they were slow walled-gardens, and that as soon as I had a method figured out in Matlab or SPSS I'd end up rewriting it in C, C++, or Java to make it work with other things or at scale. That was hammered home in the first company I worked with where we did modeling in SAS and then rewrote every model in Java because SAS couldn't keep up.

I'm not suggesting that classical stats packages aren't data scientists tools. I think they are. They're just not my tools because of the curious niche I found myself in.

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#25

These types of posts validate my concern about the people entering my field right now. Data science, as a line of work, is distinct from other technical roles in its focus on creating business value using machine learning and statistics . This quality is easily observed in the most successful data scientists I've worked with (whether at unicorn startups, big companies like my current employer, or "mission-driven" com…

Or, just like software engineering or any other profession in the world, there's going to be a need for people to solve hard problems and people to solve easy problems. Data science isn't different.

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#26

These types of posts validate my concern about the people entering my field right now. Data science, as a line of work, is distinct from other technical roles in its focus on creating business value using machine learning and statistics . This quality is easily observed in the most successful data scientists I've worked with (whether at unicorn startups, big companies like my current employer, or "mission-driven" com…

> Implicit in this definition is avoiding the destruction of business value by misapplying ML/statistics

This is an incredibly important point.

I'm working as a fundraising and marketing analyst for a non-profit, but my background is in biology. The skill-set needed for analysis is pretty similar between marketing and population ecology. If you ask someone in either field what the biggest barrier to analysis is, getting data would almost certainly be the most common answer for both fields. However, data is treated very differently between the two fields.

On the scientific side, I find that most of the frustration occurs because there isn't enough data to make a conclusion. Peers will criticize conclusions made with insufficient information.

On the business side, I find that I'm often pressured to make claims that are much more confident that the data is capable of being. As a scientist, I am always very aware of the limitations of my data, but in business I feel like I'm pressured to make conclusions, and that people are waiting to make decisions based on any information they can get out of me.

I spend more time on my write-ups than I do planning my experiments, collecting data, and performing my analysis combined. In a business setting time "moves faster" and the stakeholders in a project expect results no matter what. In these cases, communicating what the limitations are in a concrete way is really important. Expressing risk in terms of money, or probability in terms of coin-flips makes a pretty substantial difference, and can really help people relate to the information you are presenting.

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#27
post #25

These types of posts validate my concern about the people entering my field right now. Data science, as a line of work, is distinct from other technical roles in its focus on creating business value using machine learning and statistics . This quality is easily observed in the most successful data scientists I've worked with (whether at unicorn startups, big companies like my current employer, or "mission-driven" com…

Or, just like software engineering or any other profession in the world, there's going to be a need for people to solve hard problems and people to solve easy problems. Data science isn't different.

Yeah, that's fair!

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#28
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in a statistics program you're going to learn to code. That's been my experience anyway.

I think it's great that students and young professors in the sciences are taught to code now. I've even taught some of them. To me, data science is more than understanding statistics, it's been essential to know how to scale them up and out. If you're a domain scientist, you won't necessarily learn how to write reusable tools that are performant (or runnable) on data that is different from your initial model data. I…

That line you're talking about sounds more like the traditional science/engineering divide. Maybe staticians are data scientists, but what we call "data science" is really data engineering?

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#29

The roles of statistician and data scientist are not substitutes but more like complements. This guy definitely is a data scientist. Here's some ways to tell: - Works on non-mission-critical components, e.g. he's not doing statistics for the when the wing will fall off your airplane, but he can help you figure out business problems more open to interpretation, e.g. subject line open rates. - His publishing tools favo…

I knew I was forgetting packages. I do in fact use Tableau. Will add it. Thanks for the catch! As for LaTeX, it would have never occurred to me to add it. I have no idea why not, but it doesn't. Maybe because it feels more like a chore than a tool. It's like an anti-tool. I mean, I do or did in the recent past use LaTeX, but in more recent years I would farm that out to someone junior to me who hadn't worked with it…

sometimes i write python packages to auto populate tex files. like imagine running LDA with 50 topics and showing how each topic (via word cloud) correlates to an outcome variable

then it starts to become a tool :)

Re: Being a Data Scientist: My Experience and Toolset

#30

The roles of statistician and data scientist are not substitutes but more like complements. This guy definitely is a data scientist. Here's some ways to tell: - Works on non-mission-critical components, e.g. he's not doing statistics for the when the wing will fall off your airplane, but he can help you figure out business problems more open to interpretation, e.g. subject line open rates. - His publishing tools favo…

I knew I was forgetting packages. I do in fact use Tableau. Will add it. Thanks for the catch! As for LaTeX, it would have never occurred to me to add it. I have no idea why not, but it doesn't. Maybe because it feels more like a chore than a tool. It's like an anti-tool. I mean, I do or did in the recent past use LaTeX, but in more recent years I would farm that out to someone junior to me who hadn't worked with it…

I think my job is similar to yours. My background is in engineering at an industrial manufacturing plant.

I have some of the same issues. The Engineers here tend to reach for spreadsheets first (or Access databases - these things are everywhere at my work) and inevitably they run into scaling problems and end up with a huge bloated mess. I step in to re-architecture these monstrosities (using "real" databases when necessary).

The other big part of my day to day work is modelling and data analysis. Usually regression based stuff and LP optimization problems (SAS is very good for this) especially around yield and quality control. The venerable excel "solver" plugin is often abused very heavily by engineers and is not always the ideal solution.

The person who I took over from was a Stats guy and the original job title was "Process Statistician" my boss has since retitled my role "Data Management Engineer". I still think of myself as an engineer first and foremost and a "data" person second.

I use SAS heavily. We have kind of gone in the opposite direction to you. I have rewritten some of our models in the past from C++ into SAS mostly for ease of maintenance because SAS is better understood by the non programmers (Most of the Engineers here do not have a programming/CS background and those that do tend to either know Fortran or Visual Basic very few grasp C/C++ very well). Speed is not really any issue but opaqueness and ease of maintanece is.

I'd like to learn R because I have heard it is very similar to SAS but more transferable to outside companies. Julia is the other language I've got my eye on I have heard it is somewhat similar to MATLAB which is used for some modelling work here.

Post reply on HN