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Jupiter loses a stripe.

newscientist.com

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Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#21

Post by mrkurt »

tom_rath wrote: post #19
Retric wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that sending probes thought the solar system is interesting, but other planets are not worming. PS: This is the second time the band has disappeared discovering why that happens may be interesting like the North pole hexagon cloud pattern over Saturn but it's probably not a temperature effect: http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060519/full/news060515-17.ht...

Do we have sufficient data to conclude that other planets are not warming? How far back does our accurate, consistent measurement go? Years? A decade or two? I'm not sure we have sufficient data to conclude anything right now. We know astoundingly little about the neighbourhood we live in.

I don't want to sound like too much of a jackass here, but do you have any reason to think that other planets are warming? The rhetorical technique of "pose a question without any real backing, then demand proof when someone answers" drives me nuts.

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#22

Post by tom_rath »

mrkurt wrote: post #21
tom_rath wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have sufficient data to conclude that other planets are not warming? How far back does our accurate, consistent measurement go? Years? A decade or two? I'm not sure we have sufficient data to conclude anything right now. We know astoundingly little about the neighbourhood we live in.

I don't want to sound like too much of a jackass here, but do you have any reason to think that other planets are warming? The rhetorical technique of "pose a question without any real backing, then demand proof when someone answers" drives me nuts.

Yes. For one, there's that big ol' fusion furnace in the middle of the place that's tossing out a variable amount of energy as time goes on.

Examining the weather of other planets would help explain if solar activity or other factors are affecting planetary temperatures more than recent human actions.

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#23

Post by demallien »

tom_rath wrote: post #22
mrkurt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to sound like too much of a jackass here, but do you have any reason to think that other planets are warming? The rhetorical technique of "pose a question without any real backing, then demand proof when someone answers" drives me nuts.

Yes. For one, there's that big ol' fusion furnace in the middle of the place that's tossing out a variable amount of energy as time goes on. Examining the weather of other planets would help explain if solar activity or other factors are affecting planetary temperatures more than recent human actions.

The sun isn't responsible for global warming. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7327393.stm

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#25

Post by lutorm »

tom_rath wrote: post #15
jrockway wrote: post #6

Interesting article. Normally when I read an article in the form of "some natural phenomenon has stopped occurring", I get worried and think of how the human race is fucking over the planet and we're all going to die, unless we figure out what we did wrong. That was the initial thought that went through my mind when I clicked through to this article. Then I realized, hey... that's another planet. We didn't cause the…

Actually, we probably do want to care about that. We know Earth's environment is changing but be don't really know why. Our planet is a single data point in the solar system, which makes analysis a little difficult. Is Mars getting warmer or colder? Is Jupiter? Why is Jupiter's atmosphere visibly changing? If all other planets in the solar system are getting warmer/colder, shouldn't we expect Earth's temperature to c…

Jupiter's atmosphere is really complex, probably more so than the Earth's due to its internal heat, high spin rate and lack of surface. I'm not sure we should look there for clues about the changes in the Sun. Probably much easier to just measure the solar output.

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#26

Post by johngalt »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #12

On closer inspection, astronomers detected what appears to be a large and rapidly-growing collection of black rectangles on the surface.

ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE USE THEM TOGETHER USE THEM IN PEACE

*Edit Ack! pavlov beat me to it

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#27

Post by tom_rath »

demallien wrote: post #23
tom_rath wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. For one, there's that big ol' fusion furnace in the middle of the place that's tossing out a variable amount of energy as time goes on. Examining the weather of other planets would help explain if solar activity or other factors are affecting planetary temperatures more than recent human actions.

The sun isn't responsible for global warming. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7327393.stm

Please don't bring that politicized stuff into the discussion. That's a different flame war entirely.

If Jupiter is warming/cooling or Mars is warming/cooling, then something has to be responsible for it, and it sure isn't human activity.

If not the sun, then what? Something about planetary environments we're likely interested in learning more about, right?

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#28

Post by RyanMcGreal »

johngalt wrote: post #26
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #12

On closer inspection, astronomers detected what appears to be a large and rapidly-growing collection of black rectangles on the surface.

ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE USE THEM TOGETHER USE THEM IN PEACE *Edit Ack! pavlov beat me to it

Pedantic note: the last part - "USE THEM TOGETHER USE THEM IN PEACE" - was added to the movie version, in which the story was overlaid with a now-anachronistic Cold War tension between the American and Soviet members of the mission.

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#29

Post by demallien »

tom_rath wrote: post #27
demallien wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sun isn't responsible for global warming. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7327393.stm

Please don't bring that politicized stuff into the discussion. That's a different flame war entirely. If Jupiter is warming/cooling or Mars is warming/cooling, then something has to be responsible for it, and it sure isn't human activity. If not the sun, then what? Something about planetary environments we're likely interested in learning more about, right?

You don't get to just label contrary scientific findings as 'political', and dismiss it out of hand. Here's the published paper that the article refers to: http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/3/2/024001/ The correlations don't hold up under analysis, and that's really all there is to be said on the subject. But if you feel that you can refute that paper with evidence, then go for it. I for one would love for you to be right, It's no doubt save me (and everyone else on the planet) a whole load of economic pain. Sadly, reality does't seem to be going along with my desires.

Re: Jupiter loses a stripe.

#30

Post by Tamerlin »

tom_rath wrote: post #22
mrkurt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to sound like too much of a jackass here, but do you have any reason to think that other planets are warming? The rhetorical technique of "pose a question without any real backing, then demand proof when someone answers" drives me nuts.

Yes. For one, there's that big ol' fusion furnace in the middle of the place that's tossing out a variable amount of energy as time goes on. Examining the weather of other planets would help explain if solar activity or other factors are affecting planetary temperatures more than recent human actions.

Jupiter is far enough from the sun that it already emits significantly more heat than it receives. So the sun becoming more active won't have any measurable effect on Jupiter, or any other of our gas giants, or Pluto or Charon.

If any planets ARE warming because of an increase in solar activity, the ones we should expect to see a change on are Venus, Earth, and Mars.

Venus is a good example of what happens if the greenhouse effects run amok, and Mars is a good example of the opposite. We're in the middle, at least for now.

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