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Mac’s share falls to five-year low

computerworld.com

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Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#21
post #15
post #6

Does this really matter? I've also felt that recent mac desktop/laptop releases have been poor. But is it really important to satisfy the masses in this market? It seems like we're in a world where most people could be quite happy with doing most things on a phone or tablet. That's not to say it isn't likely an important strategic market (after all it's the only platform you can develop iOS apps on). But having a lar…

> It seems like we're in a world where most people could be quite happy with doing most things on a phone or tablet. We're not those people, though, and we do care. > That's not to say it isn't likely an important strategic market (after all it's the only platform you can develop iOS apps on). But having a large share of this market might not be important. As long as people also have jobs, it will be.

The reason people make apps for iOS/macOS despite the small market share is because those users spend a disproportionate amount of money. As long as Apple keeps them there it doesn't matter.

But, if the people who are spending money are using Apple products because they enjoy the integration across the entire product line and they become disillusioned, the whole house of cards could come tumbling down. Alternatively, if people evangelizing Apple fall in this camp and stop recommending them, that could also have adverse affects. I don't know if this will happen, but it's a risk for them for sure.

In the end a killer iPhone can probably solve everything, but Mac users leaving is definitely a drag.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#22
Also see the relative growth of /r/buildapc vs. /r/apple: http://redditmetrics.com/r/buildapc#compare=apple (click on Total Subscribers). March 2013 was the crossover point.

I'm trying to compare Apple on it's own turf here (tapping into the enthusiasm of retail / consumer folks). That's a lot of mindshare lost, IMHO, by defining themselves as the "Bose of computer hardware".

Important mindshare at that: young people. Once these young folks struggle with BSODs, fiddling with BIOS settings, NVidia drivers, screwdrivers and thermal paste, and get a rig up and running, it becomes an addiction. I find it ironic that it is the very opposite of what Apple offers, a trouble-free "It just works" experience, that is the appealing factor of /r/buildapc.

The one thing they should have learned from Steve is: everything has a context; it's OK to change your opinion.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#23
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mac Pro is in such bad state that it appears it's worth just building a Hackintosh desktop to avoid buying such old hardware. I'm still running a Mid 2010 Mac Pro because the new trash can model wasn't compelling and it's since sat without upgrades since introduction.

This is true, but I'd guess that having a nice Mac Pro isn't going to gain them market share. The market they're losing is probably the low end (where cost difference is higher).

Lexus offers the LFA because it attracts enthusiasts and media to enhance the brand and to ensure the pleb models have a higher perceived value.

Apple offering an extremely obsolete Mac Pro filters down from a brand standpoint, it hurts them by turning former ambassadors against them (such as myself), and by losing third party support for professional software when the customer base starts asking for alternatives because the hardware is too obsolete.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#24
post #16

Whether this was a reflection of overall PC slowdown, I don't know but Apple execs need to make some course corrections sooner rather than later. The apparent neglect of developers with respect to some of the changes (and non-changes) in the laptop and desktop lines seems to be giving many developers pause and concern.

One thing that Windows (somewhat famously) gets is "developers! developers! developers!" Apple has a passionate, loyal developer community. Developers who create iOS apps use OS X machines to do it. They spend almost twice as much on an OS X machine (vs. a Windows machine) to get over the barrier to entry. Apple has never made anywhere close to the same investment in their developers that their developers have made i…

In what country do these cheap, professional developer machines exist? I'm shopping for a laptop now and to get a pro-grade (ie. no flex hinges), UHD screen, SSD, dGPU machine with enough battery life easily puts you into MBP prices.

Now, you could do dev work on something cheaper just like you could do dev work on raspberrypi but no one asked for that.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#25

Personally I'm hopeful. I think Apple does their best work when they're on their back foot. When they get to be the market leader (however you want to define that term) they get lazy. I wouldn't like to see a repeat of their situation in 1997, but it certainly did spur some big changes.

While I would agree with you a company is the sum of its people and right now the personnel at Apple has changed just way too much.

I'm not as hopeful - Apple will continue to be a behemoth, but I'm afraid the magic is gone. It may not go down the path of HP, but it will be closer to Dell in the future than to Apple at its Zenith.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#26

Whether this was a reflection of overall PC slowdown, I don't know but Apple execs need to make some course corrections sooner rather than later. The apparent neglect of developers with respect to some of the changes (and non-changes) in the laptop and desktop lines seems to be giving many developers pause and concern.

The Mac Pro is in such bad state that it appears it's worth just building a Hackintosh desktop to avoid buying such old hardware. I'm still running a Mid 2010 Mac Pro because the new trash can model wasn't compelling and it's since sat without upgrades since introduction.

The 2010 Mac Pro is also very upgradeable (and fairly cheaply too). I upgraded mine from a 2.4ghz 8-core to a 3.3ghz 12-core w/ 128gb RAM, very very fast SSD, USB3, and much improved graphics card (driving five displays). The only thing it's lacking that I'd want is Thunderbolt really. Yes, newer processors are a little faster, but the main benefit of Haswell and later CPUs is much lower TDP for mostly same-ish performance. For my usage, I'm much less concerned about power usage / heat, so it doesn't effect me much.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple prices like a luxury item: no sales etc.. But the thing is - tech is not like fashion. You can't just call it 'Gucci' and hold the plebes at bay with high prices. It's utility - so when there is less utility, people will drop apple and go elsewhere. If they want to keep luxury brand status they actually have to provide something of value.

This is an odd sentiment to hear on HN. We are usually technical people, surely we can see past "spec" as the only differentiator of two laptops. Apple are priced like a high-end business quality laptop. (except upgrades are a higher mark-up) if you compare laptops based on the quality of their build Apple laptops are quite competitive.[0] That's before you factor in little things that don't seem to make it to busine…

Apple is definitely a fashion brand - and their marketing tactics and positioning are mostly aspirational - the underlying commodity is tech.

This is why Apple hired Angela Andrents - who's background is 100% fashion (she re-built Burberry) and 0% technology.

Think about that for a moment: the hired their #1 marketing person with ZERO tech background :).

Who is the 'other' most powerful person at Apple? It's Johhny Ive - a designer - who is very much in the vein of fashion/design, and understands that ethos.

Their store layouts, marketing, pricing strategies - all from luxury fashion.

Yes - the build 'quality' products - I agree - and their products are not too far off the spec pricing for similarly 'quality' gear.

BUT - I would argue that 'high end spec' is just not relevant for most applications even for development.

A decent, middle of the road PC would de-facto provide enough RAM/disk space+speed/CPU to do the job, so long as the form factor is robust enough (and there are a few) - I think they would do just fine.

This is a pretty crude but not unreasonable comparison:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-...

The Macbook is 2x the price across 'mostly' equivalent measurements. (I understand there's more to it, but pragmatically, they are pretty close).

FYI - Luxury brands specifically price on the high end no matter what, they don't ever go on sale - and unlike most other consumer goods - the perception of value goes down if they ever hit mass market appeal. For luxury goods, there has to be an element of 'status' with the purchase, which is what Apple does very effectively, and obviously.

But it's not clothing - so they have to keep up the 'wow' factor, and be 'unquestionably the best', not just in benchmark measurements - but in aspirational terms.

Case and point: 'Siri' - what a useless thing. But they packaged it and sold it in a manner that 'wowed' the consumer market. 'It was the future!'. So this needs to continue in order to hold their pricing model.

That said, I don't think they're going to crash that far. I'm stuck on Mac, I don't want to go through the pain of switching, and eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a new Mac, but for the first time in a long while I'm thinking of switching.

I'm not doubting that Apple products are pretty good, and that they are not too-too far off given their specs.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#28
I can understand the fall, since I myself am torn or the subject. I am a huge fan of Apple laptops for two reasons: 1. I can do all my development on the same Unix environment I run Adobe and various DAWs on. 2. Apple's trackpads. Having said that, I've been considering a move back to my previous two-laptop setup; one Linux machine for development and general use, and one Windows machine (shudder) for Adobe and DAWs. I can get a PC with the same specs or better than a Mac, with memory capacities up to 32GB of RAM (twice what Apple offers), for around $1,000.00 less. I could also solve the problem of the vanishing hardware (e.g. ports, Esc key, etc.) by going this route.

However, I still like macOS a million times more than I like Windows. I'm not ready to switch yet, but I'm thinking about it. If Apple continues to neglect their Mac line, and fail to offer specs comparable to their competitors, my thoughts may turn into action. I imagine others are feeling the same way.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#29
post #4

They are expensive and underpowered. I used to get the top of the line macbook but it's not worth it anymore. It's starts to look like the John Sculley era. If it wasn't for the pro audio support I would jump on the linux boat.

The John Sculley era Apple was extremely successful. This was the era of the original Mac, Mac II lines, Quadras, Powerbooks, Quicktime, and Hypercard. And turned Apple from a million dollar company to billion dollar one.

Near the end they were in too many product categories with overlapping products. Management had lost the plot and it was showing in inventory, staff, and development. I know everyone likes to believe that Apple was always failing when Steve became iCEO but that was not the way it happened.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#30
post #14

PSA: This "news" comes courtesy of a company called Net Applications, which I've never heard of before. Looks like they're a web analytics firm. So take this with a huge grain of salt, because they can't actually see real user share, all they can see is the share of people who browse to their clients' sites.

And it's being covered by ComputerWorld. Say no more. Thanks to "free" industry-supported publications like this -- designed to make non-technical management feel good about following the Microsoft/Cisco/Oracle status quo -- my efforts to integrate Linux into my company's operations in the 90's was very frustrating.
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