21–30 of 83 posts
Foxconn is far, far more than just iPhones or just Apple.
[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-moving-from-foxconn-to-...
Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
I believe one of Apple's higher ups has talked about child labor before. I'm not sure if it was Steve or Tim but the convo was that its impossible to handle without hurting the communities because the norm is child labor over there. So the conditions for the children are worse if they have no labor. It's really complicated and not something that you can judge from an arm chair position, you have to go over there and…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe we shouldn't allow that. Perhaps we should apply a tax to adjust for environmental and labor impact. I imagine it would be $0 from Europe. A medium tax from China to account for the complete lack of environmental regulation. A high tax for products from places like Bangladesh. There is nothing that says we have to allow for free trade. It certainly hasn't been a net-benefit to the United States itself.
But wouldn't that just burden American businesses against foreign competitors? It would make it so Americans would quit offshoring and simply incorporate outside of U.S. jurisdiction. That or lose to Chinese businesses that are less regulated and are thus free to be "more innovative"
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe one of Apple's higher ups has talked about child labor before. I'm not sure if it was Steve or Tim but the convo was that its impossible to handle without hurting the communities because the norm is child labor over there. So the conditions for the children are worse if they have no labor. It's really complicated and not something that you can judge from an arm chair position, you have to go over there and…
If you have a family of 6 (lets assume 2 parents and 4 kids) all working for 50 cents an hour. Saying "your kids have to go to school and not work" and then paying the adults 3 dollars an hour. The family winds up making more money without the kids having to work. (in this admittedly limited example, the family makes double) If you take the kids out of the equation without increasing the parental pay, then yes, you'l…
Other countries don't have child labor laws because their job market evolved and pushed the low labor cost jobs into other countries.
That figure is astounding, that every other smartphone manufacturer shares only 10% of worldwide profit.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This article by Krugman changed my world view: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/19... It is almost 20 years old and notes that industrialization and modernization is a process. It doesn't really work for a country to get rich without climbing it [edit: except free money, like with oil], including simple jobs in the beginning -- and now China is doing it. In my book, it is good for humanity wi…
Thanks for posting this. It's incredibly Euro-centric to sit here and complain about the perceived child/human rights abuses that happen in China when those very exact things are what industrialized Europe. I really wish we would all just spend more time focusing on our countries and improving our quality of life through trade and the free exchange of ideas. Other countries don't have to listen to our lessons or advi…
It's also incredibly Euro-centric to be thinking that other countries ought to be following the path Europe and the US took to capitalism, and then to say that these countries should be implementing it in such a way that there's the same worker exploitation everywhere.
Worker exploitation isn't some thing in the past. It doesn't just happen in China, it's happening all the time and everywhere. But the case of it is so readily apparent in China it ought to be a case against worker exploitation as a whole. Yet some people still say "nevermind these countries, they're just on their way to being like us". We do not stop to question whether being like Europe is actually beneficial?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because that's capitalism in today's world. It's the "free market" at work. I don't think the focus should be on preventing people from using "bad labour" but rather on making it so that there would be no reason to use "bad labour". As much as people on HN especially would be so critical of Socialism, they often shy away from these topics - beacuse they are uncomfortable to think about. The fact of the matter is that…
> As much as people on HN especially would be so critical of Socialism Where do you get this from? Pretty much everyone from Europe is very grateful for the various safety nets the countries have built up there, especially in West-Europe.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because that's capitalism in today's world. It's the "free market" at work. I don't think the focus should be on preventing people from using "bad labour" but rather on making it so that there would be no reason to use "bad labour". As much as people on HN especially would be so critical of Socialism, they often shy away from these topics - beacuse they are uncomfortable to think about. The fact of the matter is that…
This article by Krugman changed my world view: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/19... It is almost 20 years old and notes that industrialization and modernization is a process. It doesn't really work for a country to get rich without climbing it [edit: except free money, like with oil], including simple jobs in the beginning -- and now China is doing it. In my book, it is good for humanity wi…
They are going through the same thing as us, but we still have people saying that capitalism will move us "forward". No, capitalism in these countries simply means that their exploitation isn't as readily obvious. It's "friendly". This is why there are pool tables in offices for example, it's there to placate you while your wages fail to represent the work you do. The discrepancy between the value of what is produced and the wages given in return is most visible in countries like China in these factories. It's less readily obvious when your boss lets you play pool in the office.
As far as I can tell, the only "indistrialization and modernization" that's going on is workers being treated better, while retaining the idea that it's fine to do certain things that, say, damage the environment and it's fine to maintain the discrepancy between the labour applied and the wages.
I think it ought to be abandoned as a whole, and this concept of "limits to what capitalists can do is better than stopping them from doing it" is abandoned. That's my two cents anyway.
So, Apple's high profits depend on a whole lot of government subsidies in China. And then Apple takes that cash and protects it from US tax rates by storing it in Ireland. And now, some interesting questions are raised about the legality of that tax scheme.
Maybe the US doesn't need more businesses like Apple.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. It's incredibly Euro-centric to sit here and complain about the perceived child/human rights abuses that happen in China when those very exact things are what industrialized Europe. I really wish we would all just spend more time focusing on our countries and improving our quality of life through trade and the free exchange of ideas. Other countries don't have to listen to our lessons or advi…
>It's incredibly Euro-centric to sit here and complain about the perceived child/human rights abuses that happen in China when those very exact things are what industrialized Europe. It's also incredibly Euro-centric to be thinking that other countries ought to be following the path Europe and the US took to capitalism, and then to say that these countries should be implementing it in such a way that there's the same…
I think countries should be free to choose their own paths and for those countries to find their own unique implementations of economic policy and whatnot is fascinating, and we can always learn from them and implement the good things while eschewing the bad. As long as they don't interfere with what my country wants to do, they can do whatever they want.