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Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

nytimes.com

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Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#21

Post by megablast »

huhtenberg wrote: post #4
smallnamespace wrote: post #3

Even if these restaurants succeed, one risk is that 'no tipping' is just something that upscale restaurants in rich areas adopt because only they can afford to. Waiters in those restaurants are already compensated much better than your average waiter on a roadway diner -- this would literally only be helping the already better off.

In a lot of European countries restaurant tips are completely superficial and not expected, because wait stuff is already properly salaried. This includes all restaurant and cafe sizes.

In Europe, or everywhere in the world except for the states?

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#23

Post by iopq »

lil_cain wrote: post #11
Mao_Zedang wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know just pay people minimum wage at least. I am not sure why certain service based jobs in America attract a tip and some do not.

That article indicates that there are both tipped, and untipped minimum wages - i.e. tipped staff earn less at minimum wage.

If they earn less than minimum wage, the restaurant has to actually compensate them up to the minimum wage. They only earn a lower nominal wage because it's expected they get more from tips.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#24

Post by alkonaut »

ragebol wrote: post #19
smallnamespace wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but switching from a tipping to no-tipping equilibrium is probably hard. It's hard for a no-tipping restaurant to compete because the advertised menu prices will simply be higher, and you'd need consumers to mentally adjust all prices ~13% downward. "But some restaurants that adopted a no-tipping policy in 2016 have already revoked it: The New York restaurateurs David Chang, Tom Colicchio and Gabe Stulman all f…

When I was in the US, I also had to mentally adjust for the incomplete, tax-less, pricing at places. At the airport, I thought I could buy one last thing from my last few coins and bills of change. Quite a bummer at the register when it turned out it was actually more expensive. In Europe, sometimes prices even list both the VAT included and excluded prices.

What's the point of even having a price sticker if what's charged is more than what it says? Are some people exempt from the sales tax added? Is it dynamic depdending on the total amount charged?

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#25

Post by crummy »

waiseristy wrote: post #9
rdl wrote: post #7

I don't see why they can't just keep prices the same and add a "mandatory 20% service charge" at the bottom.

People will get even more angry with that, as they will feel they have been slighted by a "hidden cost".

That happens all the time at many restaurants for larger groups.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#26

Post by thinkloop »

No tipping is tricky when it's not mandated, because prices always look and feel more expensive comparatively, even if it works out the same in the end. People are very impressionable to their initial sub-conscious impressions. Hence pricing like $9.99. It seems marketers have been aggressively going the other way over the last few years: do whatever it takes to minimize the sticker shock, then siphon as much as possible from the relationship.

- new car for only $149! (every two weeks)

- cheap tickets, but charge for seat-choice, blankets, bags, etc.

- collect hundreds of tiny taxes instead of one equivalent (simpler) income tax

- loss lead then recoup on servicing and insurance

- cheap plans with punitive overages

- access fee, upgrade fee, change fee introduced at the cash

I'm personally finding it more and more difficult to calculate total cost of ownership of products and services.

If your prices are advertised at 20% higher than everyone else's, I can't see this working except at the most inelastic high-end restaurants.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#27

Post by tmnvix »

slightly related: I've never been to the US but have been aware of the mandatory tipping situation for a fair while. I'm curious though; when I was first made aware of it (2 or 3 decades ago), I am sure that the 'standard' tip was supposed to be closer to 10% than 20%. Is this correct? Has the actual % amount changed?

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#28

Post by ars »

alkonaut wrote: post #24
ragebol wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in the US, I also had to mentally adjust for the incomplete, tax-less, pricing at places. At the airport, I thought I could buy one last thing from my last few coins and bills of change. Quite a bummer at the register when it turned out it was actually more expensive. In Europe, sometimes prices even list both the VAT included and excluded prices.

What's the point of even having a price sticker if what's charged is more than what it says? Are some people exempt from the sales tax added? Is it dynamic depdending on the total amount charged?

> What's the point of even having a price sticker if what's charged is more than what it says?

It's because cities can have local sales tax, but advertising campaigns are national, or at last wider than a single city. So it's impossible to advertise the final price unless you micro-target a single area.

Because of this it became the custom not to include tax on any prices.

Unlike Europe there is no sales tax on a national level in the US (except for gasoline), so there is no tax that could be listed that applies to everyone.

(And gasoline, it should be noted, is always advertised with all taxes included.)

> Are some people exempt from the sales tax added?

Yes, certain non profits do not pay sales tax. You can show the sales person a document with your tax free status and it won't be added. (You'll have to sign something attesting you will not use it for personal use, but only for the purposes of the non-profit.)

> Is it dynamic depdending on the total amount charged?

Only for some luxury items, where below a certain amount it's not considered a luxury and the tax is lower.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#29

Post by waiseristy »

crummy wrote: post #25
waiseristy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will get even more angry with that, as they will feel they have been slighted by a "hidden cost".

That happens all the time at many restaurants for larger groups.

I know, I was a waiter for years. We had to get rid of that policy because we were losing business.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#30

Post by Tempest1981 »

Mao_Zedang wrote: post #5
smallnamespace wrote: post #3

Even if these restaurants succeed, one risk is that 'no tipping' is just something that upscale restaurants in rich areas adopt because only they can afford to. Waiters in those restaurants are already compensated much better than your average waiter on a roadway diner -- this would literally only be helping the already better off.

Or you know just pay people minimum wage at least. I am not sure why certain service based jobs in America attract a tip and some do not.

Presumably it A) benefits the worker, since they make extra if they provide good service, B) benefits the employer, because the worker is motivated to provide good service, and C) the service level is highly visible to the customer, who they interact closely with.

I tip my hair cutter, but not my car mechanic, mostly due to C, I guess.

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