Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries • Hacker News Board

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#21

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #7

diafygi wrote: post #2

I work in solar, and here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Solar is no longer an experimental thing, and the industry is now focused on scaling. How can we deploy more solar faster? It's ridiculous how cheap panels have gotten, but a significant amount of the cost savings in the past few years is coming from soft cost (logistics, overhead, engin…

>>What would convince you to start a cleantech software (i.e. cleanweb) startup? The most successful startups are founded by those who possess domain knowledge. Without that, most software engineers trying to found a startup in another technical field (i.e. energy) wouldn't even know where to begin.

[deleted]

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#22

Post by iamgopal » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

diafygi wrote: post #2

I work in solar, and here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Solar is no longer an experimental thing, and the industry is now focused on scaling. How can we deploy more solar faster? It's ridiculous how cheap panels have gotten, but a significant amount of the cost savings in the past few years is coming from soft cost (logistics, overhead, engin…

Err...then what elon musk is doing exactly? Is not he dreaming of wiping out whole big power plant industry from face of earth using only solar power. What more you are asking for ?

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#23

Post by iamgopal » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

Kudos to China!! We should give credit when it's due.

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#24

Post by jaclaz » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

waynenilsen wrote: post #10

* after subsidies

... and without taking into account that after 15 or 20 - maybe 25 - years the panels will need to be replaced.

How "clean" is disposing of these depleted slabs of glass and silicon (or whatever other elements)?

How much will it cost?

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#25

Post by woodruffw » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #24

waynenilsen wrote: post #10

* after subsidies

... and without taking into account that after 15 or 20 - maybe 25 - years the panels will need to be replaced. How "clean" is disposing of these depleted slabs of glass and silicon (or whatever other elements)? How much will it cost?

It seems like most manufacturers have a 20/25-year standard, meaning that their panels should still be capable of producing 80% of their peak efficiency after 20/25 years in the field [1].

A 20% decrease over 20/25 years isn't bad at all. Compare that to the 3-4 automobiles that the average American family might buy during that period, or the normal 30-40 year lifespan of a coal generator [2].

Recycling glass and silicon is fairly straightforward, compared to other recycled materials (paper, plastics). Panel recycling will probably be complicated by whatever rare earth minerals are currently used in solar cells, but that's just another potential market.

[1]: http://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesi...

[2]: http://qz.com/61423/coal-fired-power-plants-near-retirement/

[3]: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/smart-energy-solutions/de...

Edit: Forgot the source on 3-4 cars [4].

[4]: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-o...

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#26

Post by woodruffw » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:38 PM UTC

waynenilsen wrote: post #10

* after subsidies

We also subsidize the coal and oil industries by not aggressively factoring the externalities they produce into their taxation.

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#27

Post by refulgentis » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:42 PM UTC

diafygi wrote: post #17

planteen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like there is a ton of need for software in solar, but I could be wrong. It seems to me that solar technology is mostly in line of something like a power semiconductor. You need lots of people who understand semiconductor physics and process to manufacture the panels. Then an EE puts is all together. There is software at all of those steps, but it seems to be more of a cost than the primary product.

You're right, there isn't a lot of software in the solar panels themselves (they are indeed just a semiconductor). However, that's not where the costs are. Only about 34% of the cost of a solar installation is actual hardware. 64% of the installed cost is customer acquisition, overhead, engineering, labor, etc[1]. These are all costs that can be optimized with software. For example, my startup focuses on automating t…

Yeesh. Good luck.[1]

[1]: https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#28

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:42 PM UTC

diafygi wrote: post #17

planteen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like there is a ton of need for software in solar, but I could be wrong. It seems to me that solar technology is mostly in line of something like a power semiconductor. You need lots of people who understand semiconductor physics and process to manufacture the panels. Then an EE puts is all together. There is software at all of those steps, but it seems to be more of a cost than the primary product.

You're right, there isn't a lot of software in the solar panels themselves (they are indeed just a semiconductor). However, that's not where the costs are. Only about 34% of the cost of a solar installation is actual hardware. 64% of the installed cost is customer acquisition, overhead, engineering, labor, etc[1]. These are all costs that can be optimized with software. For example, my startup focuses on automating t…

[deleted]

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#29

Post by ced » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:45 PM UTC

diafygi wrote: post #2

I work in solar, and here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Solar is no longer an experimental thing, and the industry is now focused on scaling. How can we deploy more solar faster? It's ridiculous how cheap panels have gotten, but a significant amount of the cost savings in the past few years is coming from soft cost (logistics, overhead, engin…

What cleantech companies would you recommend?

Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries

#30

Post by _red » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:47 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #24

waynenilsen wrote: post #10

* after subsidies

... and without taking into account that after 15 or 20 - maybe 25 - years the panels will need to be replaced. How "clean" is disposing of these depleted slabs of glass and silicon (or whatever other elements)? How much will it cost?

A bigger environmental problem is that many solar use mandates having batteries.

The average armchair environmentalist loves to ignore the thousands of tons of earth that must be mined to get enough rare earth minerals for a single battery to be constructed.