ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes • Hacker News Board

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#21

Post by cm2187 » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:19 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #12

> First, Qualcomm’s System on a Chip (Soc) designs have improved so dramatically in the past four years that their performance rivals that of mainstream Intel Core chipsets for PCs. Hah! > And even better, Microsoft has developed an emulation technology that allows Win32 applications to launch and run unmodified on ARM-based PCs. And to do so with what I am assured is excellent performance. I don't believe it.

Not many CPU bound apps running on an ordinary laptop.

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#22

Post by mirasmithy » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:22 AM UTC

pwnna wrote: post #7

Interesting development. Could this be a good thing that encourages OEM to standardize on something like the IBM-like PC that we have for x86 systems so we don't have to deal with each individual boards in Android or the traditional GNU/Linuxes? Furthermore, if the x86 emulation turns out to be as fast as they promised and demo'ed, will this kind of technology be developed for desktop linux? Is it even necessary as m…

+1 A major issue with ARM boards is you can't expect [name-your-arm-os] to run on all ARM boards. Each implements it's own boot sequence and drivers aren't the best. Something like this might push for a unified spec.

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#23

Post by mikhailt » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:23 AM UTC

RachelF wrote: post #5

We'll see. Full Windows x86 emulation will likely be slow. It will be a harder sell the second time around, too as Windows RT burned a lot of people, and fewer trust Microsoft than before.

It's native ARM version of Windows 10 and for UWP apps, as well as any x86 apps recompiled for ARM. The rest of the classic x86 32-bit apps will run via the emulation, like Rosetta on macOS in the past when running PPC apps on Intel.

That means unlike WinRT, almost all of your apps will be usable, no confusion about it like what befell the WindowsRT.

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#24

Post by cm2187 » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:25 AM UTC

douche wrote: post #4

The last time we had ARM Windows machines, we got the Surface RT. I still have one of these that I occasionally bring to meetings to fool around and maybe put a ticket in with. It is not a great piece of equipment...

It's not that bad. Win 8 inside was terrible. The hardware was OK. Not a big fan of the sharp edges when holding it.

But to me the main problem was having built an iOS style environment, completely locked down, with no way to install anything unless you pay money to microsoft through the windows store (and redevelop your app). There was no technical reason to prevent regular .net apps from running directly on windows RT.

So it was a subpar experience compared to iOS without the power and flexibility of windows.

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#25

Post by Mao_Zedang » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:26 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #19

Download my great free Windows program now! Please choose: EXE installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM MSI installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM Portable Zip 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM (Download my great free macOS program now! Click here ) This is already a usability problem, and adding 2 more target chipsets makes it worse. Given both bandwidth and smart programmers, c…

https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/store/apps/windows

"it still can't be used to download and install boring oldschool desktop applications"

it can.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/porting/desktop-to-uw...

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#26

Post by Eridrus » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:29 AM UTC

Even assuming they can hit performance targets with this, which sounds hard but not impossible, what's the major use case?

Continuum? Windows laptops with better battery life?

Most win32 software is going to suck on a touch screen, so I'm not really seeing this help them in mobile.

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#27

Post by dragonbonheur » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:31 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #19

Download my great free Windows program now! Please choose: EXE installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM MSI installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM Portable Zip 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM (Download my great free macOS program now! Click here ) This is already a usability problem, and adding 2 more target chipsets makes it worse. Given both bandwidth and smart programmers, c…

It's not really different from choosing among 32 bit or 64 bit programs, or even, for Linux software choosing the package that's best for your distribution. It's not really a pain point. People can read. People who use Windows and Linux know how computers work. People are smart. People should not be babysat by their operating systems. It's gonna be OK. Don't worry.

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#28

Post by m_mueller » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:36 AM UTC

dragonbonheur wrote: post #27

skrebbel wrote: post #19

Download my great free Windows program now! Please choose: EXE installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM MSI installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM Portable Zip 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM (Download my great free macOS program now! Click here ) This is already a usability problem, and adding 2 more target chipsets makes it worse. Given both bandwidth and smart programmers, c…

It's not really different from choosing among 32 bit or 64 bit programs, or even, for Linux software choosing the package that's best for your distribution. It's not really a pain point. People can read. People who use Windows and Linux know how computers work. People are smart. People should not be babysat by their operating systems. It's gonna be OK. Don't worry.

Am I missing the sarcasm tag here?

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#29

Post by douche » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:38 AM UTC

dragonbonheur wrote: post #27

skrebbel wrote: post #19

Download my great free Windows program now! Please choose: EXE installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM MSI installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM Portable Zip 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM (Download my great free macOS program now! Click here ) This is already a usability problem, and adding 2 more target chipsets makes it worse. Given both bandwidth and smart programmers, c…

It's not really different from choosing among 32 bit or 64 bit programs, or even, for Linux software choosing the package that's best for your distribution. It's not really a pain point. People can read. People who use Windows and Linux know how computers work. People are smart. People should not be babysat by their operating systems. It's gonna be OK. Don't worry.

If only...

Re: ARM-Based Windows 10 Portable PCs? Hell Yes

#30

Post by m_mueller » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 5:39 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #19

Download my great free Windows program now! Please choose: EXE installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM MSI installer 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM Portable Zip 32-bit x86 64-bit x64 32-bit ARM 64-bit ARM (Download my great free macOS program now! Click here ) This is already a usability problem, and adding 2 more target chipsets makes it worse. Given both bandwidth and smart programmers, c…

I encourage anyone who wants to know how to manage software transitions to watch Apple's presentations about Next, Rhapsody and OSX between 1997 and 2000. This was IMO a textbook example of how to move over a whole ecosystem to a more modern underpinning, even under very difficult circumstances (where Apple's leadership first had to think about how they can survive another year even).