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Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

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Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#21

Post by philwelch »

ccarpenterg wrote: post #5

Signature is only required when a compliance process has begun. So, for example, when you check your transactions and see one that you can't recognize then you call your bank and object that trx. In that moment the bank ask for the physical documents and may check your signature, but it depends on the rules of your card operator (Visa, MasterCard, Amex).

But that opens up an obvious scam:

1. Buy something with your credit card

2. Sign with a false name

3. Contest the charge

4. Get a refund--keep the merchandise.

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#22

Post by scottallison »

RK wrote: post #20
nzmsv wrote: post #10

Most cashiers hand my card back to me with the receipt to sign, and can't verify my signature. But many stores are now switching to using a PIN with chip cards, at least here in Canada. And Europe's had chip cards forever now. In fact, some places there no longer even have machines to read a magnetic stripe.

What's the advantage of chip + PIN over stripe + PIN?

In the first full year after chip & pin became mandatory in the UK card fraud in stores dropped by 47%. While retailers can still accept signatures, if they do so they are not guaranteed the funds. Before the change, if the signature matched then they got the funds regardless. Now the only way to be sure you get paid is to accept PIN authorised transactions.

What this article doesn't say is that a lot of stores ask for ID when paying by card... something that always surprises me; this NEVER happens at home.

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#23

Post by randlet »

arethuza wrote: post #17
nzmsv wrote: post #10

Most cashiers hand my card back to me with the receipt to sign, and can't verify my signature. But many stores are now switching to using a PIN with chip cards, at least here in Canada. And Europe's had chip cards forever now. In fact, some places there no longer even have machines to read a magnetic stripe.

Chip and PIN cards work pretty well (and yes I do know they have vulnerabilities) - I only use cash once or twice a month. I actually can't remember the last time I used a credit/debit card and actually signed for something - that would seem rather quaint these days.

Chip & Pin has been a major headache for me...I'm living in the UK for a year and neither one of my Canadian CC's have chip and pin. On numerous occasions cashiers have to call management to find out if they're even allowed to accept my credit card....I just carry cash now.

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#24

Post by MichaelApproved »

philwelch wrote: post #21
ccarpenterg wrote: post #5

Signature is only required when a compliance process has begun. So, for example, when you check your transactions and see one that you can't recognize then you call your bank and object that trx. In that moment the bank ask for the physical documents and may check your signature, but it depends on the rules of your card operator (Visa, MasterCard, Amex).

But that opens up an obvious scam: 1. Buy something with your credit card 2. Sign with a false name 3. Contest the charge 4. Get a refund--keep the merchandise.

There are lots of soft was to scam the system. The question is are you that type of person? Is that the life you pick? Running small scams hoping you won't get caught. Focus your energy on building something useful. You've already completed step one of that process "read hacker news."

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#25

Post by lionhearted »

I've done stuff like this - just made a smiley face on the sign line. Never had a problem with it. It's funny though, occasionally at a very official place I've had a staff member say my real signature that matches all my ID is too messy and ask me to write down my name beneath it in print. That happened to me at at least one or two consulates over the last few years when applying for visas.

Also, I remember one time a friend got a 250 euro ticket driving through Austria, and I thought it was nonsense. He was speeding sure, but I think they inflated it by more than it was, and they said he had to pay on the spot or they wouldn't let him go. If I was in that spot, I think I'd write "Coerced Void" in artful cursive on the receipt and protest it later with the credit card company.

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#26

Post by olliesaunders »

While I was working in a supermarket on the till I once contested a signature. This women's signature didn't match the one on the back of the card one bit. So I said "Can you sign that again please", and she did, but it still didn't match. Then I said "these signatures don't match at all" and she got all shirty with me, at which point I decided I wasn't being paid enough to care and just put it through anyway.

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#27

Post by arethuza »

randlet wrote: post #23
arethuza wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip and PIN cards work pretty well (and yes I do know they have vulnerabilities) - I only use cash once or twice a month. I actually can't remember the last time I used a credit/debit card and actually signed for something - that would seem rather quaint these days.

Chip & Pin has been a major headache for me...I'm living in the UK for a year and neither one of my Canadian CC's have chip and pin. On numerous occasions cashiers have to call management to find out if they're even allowed to accept my credit card....I just carry cash now.

Surely the answer to that is to set up a UK bank account and use a debit card (I make most payments with a debit card).

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#28

Post by rabble »

It's because the signatures aren't used as a security system in the first world. Here in South America i get checks and credit card receipts rejected on a pretty regular basis because my signature is slightly off. By which i mean, i didn't make the curve of the P the same way. Believe me, i prefer they didn't check.

When i complain, they offer to let me put each variation of my signature on file, so i could have several which pass the test.

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#29

Post by isleyaardvark »

rabble wrote: post #28

It's because the signatures aren't used as a security system in the first world. Here in South America i get checks and credit card receipts rejected on a pretty regular basis because my signature is slightly off. By which i mean, i didn't make the curve of the P the same way. Believe me, i prefer they didn't check. When i complain, they offer to let me put each variation of my signature on file, so i could have seve…

I was all set to agree with you, but then I looked up VISA's Merchant Agreement online [pdf]: http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_mercha...

I was surprised to see on page 28 that it is considered a security feature.

Re: Testing the Limits of Credit Card Signatures (Part 1)

#30

Post by randlet »

arethuza wrote: post #27
randlet wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip & Pin has been a major headache for me...I'm living in the UK for a year and neither one of my Canadian CC's have chip and pin. On numerous occasions cashiers have to call management to find out if they're even allowed to accept my credit card....I just carry cash now.

Surely the answer to that is to set up a UK bank account and use a debit card (I make most payments with a debit card).

I am self employed and according to the banks I spoke to I am not staying in the UK long enough for them to give me an account.
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