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What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

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Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#21

Post by sickbeard »

> More and more, users are put into - sometimes golden - cages, and forced to hand over their ideas, personal information, and even identities to international quasi-monopolies that put everything into walled gardens which the creator can only access through tiny keyholes.

I don't think this has anything to do with software, it seems more like an attempt to educate the masses on the evils of facebook and twitter, but then again that isn't a software problem. You can see this kind of locking system in financial businesses like loans/mortgages, or even benign ones like the eyeglasses business.

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#22

Post by ninju »

euske wrote: post #17
mooreds wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obligatory xkcd cartoon: https://xkcd.com/927/

I tend to think that these xkcd URLs are becoming like bible verses for geeks. I find myself memorizing those numbers. (e.g. "Ugh, he's getting like xkcd/386 again.")

386 is funny one!

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#23

Post by panic »

dreta wrote: post #16
marcosdumay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I drive my car, I just want to get from point A to point B while listening to a podcast. I don't care to know how they work. Yet, you've spent months explicitly training for that task.

And that’s just learning how to use the car. We’re talking about building one.

I think the car analogy kind of falls apart at this point. Using a computer and writing programs for a computer are both interacting with software. Take spreadsheets, for example: is making a spreadsheet analogous to building a car or to driving one? What about drag-and-drop visual programming?

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#24

Post by coderjames »

>To fix this, we need to increase the currently tiny number of people who are able to write, modify, combine and share software. We need a tool that makes writing software easy and fun, and accessible to everyone. A tool that enables software literacy.

Global access to niche knowledge doesn't seem like an effective use of the world's time to me. Let's look at this same idea, but replace "develop software" with "perform brain surgery."

> To fix this, we need to increase the currently tiny number of people who are able to perform brain surgery. We need a tool that makes performing brain surgery easy and fun, and accessible to everyone. A tool that enables neurosurgical literacy.

Just like Software Engineers don't need to know how to perform neurosurgery, accountants, marketers, burger flippers, and salespeople don't need to know how to write software. I'd rather the CEO of the company I work for spend time on growing the business, not learning how to write a "Hello, world!" program.

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#25

Post by jasonkostempski »

marcosdumay wrote: post #11
Waterluvian wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most common challenges that I see engineers face is to effectively empathize with the user. When you know a lot about something, you just see it in a fundamentally different way. This makes it difficult to focus on making it easy for the user to do what they want, not what you think they should want. When I drive my car, I just want to get from point A to point B while listening to a podcast. I don't care…

> When I drive my car, I just want to get from point A to point B while listening to a podcast. I don't care to know how they work. Yet, you've spent months explicitly training for that task.

people don't spend more that a few minutes learning the interface of a car, everything else is learning how not to die or kill other people with it.

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#26

Post by caseysoftware »

Waterluvian wrote: post #7
gmluke wrote: post #4

> Just as knowing why apples fall down and aeroplanes fly up, the citizens of the 21st century need to know that computers are not magical boxes but composed of dynamic models. In all honesty, I don't know why apples fall down and aeroplanes fly up. I just know that they do. No doubt that improving software literacy is a worthwhile goal, but I think the author hasn't made a strong case for it in the opening paragraph…

One of the most common challenges that I see engineers face is to effectively empathize with the user. When you know a lot about something, you just see it in a fundamentally different way. This makes it difficult to focus on making it easy for the user to do what they want, not what you think they should want. When I drive my car, I just want to get from point A to point B while listening to a podcast. I don't care…

Good point.

Remember, one of the key aspects of OO is hiding implementation details because they shouldn't matter. This fascination with exposing them and forcing them on end users is absurd.

We have to accept that some tasks and jobs are not for everyone and that's okay. That could be due to aptitude, skill gaps, education gaps, interest, or dozens of other things, some due to education system, some due to abilities of the individual.. and that's still okay.

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#27

Post by sbuttgereit »

jdavis703 wrote: post #10

> Just as knowing why apples fall down and aeroplanes fly up, the citizens of the 21st century need to know that computers are not magical boxes but composed of dynamic models. I'm not sure most of the public could explain why gravity works, or how an airplane actually gets in the sky. This is because most people are not inquisitive by nature, they generally take things at face value without questioning why. This kin…

> This is because most people are not inquisitive by nature, they generally take things at face value without questioning why.

I have to disagree with this statement. Almost all people that I meet, pretty much across all group boundaries you can imagine, I find to be inquisitive. Very inquisitive in fact.

What I think you may be observing is that the depths of questions that many are interested in aren't great... gossip magazines, for example serve to give answers to an inquisitive populous, we can question the value of such questions, but that is still a drive to know something.

Also, I find that when people do ask deeper questions they can be simply overwhelmed by the answers. I'm not particularly good at mathematics, but often times work with people that are in the very top tier in that realm: I will ask certain questions for which I'm simply not prepared to hear the answer... the answer requires background that I simply don't have... I am genuinely interested, but the required prep work is simply out of the question. One could argue that the answers can be simplified as well, but that's not always true.

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#28

Post by davegardner »

tdkl wrote: post #9
Waterluvian wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most common challenges that I see engineers face is to effectively empathize with the user. When you know a lot about something, you just see it in a fundamentally different way. This makes it difficult to focus on making it easy for the user to do what they want, not what you think they should want. When I drive my car, I just want to get from point A to point B while listening to a podcast. I don't care…

> Literacy isn't about forcing people to learn things, it's about ensuring that everyone has the baseline exposure to help them discover if they have an interest in a topic, and then the resources to explore that topic if they choose. That sounds hilariously naive. If we'd let people decide themselves what they want to learn the majority would still be in the sandbox making castles and playing with toys all day.

That may be true for children, but surely adults who have obtained a basic level of education should be able to decide for themselves.

Of course the question this leads to is "what is thr basic level of understanding that people should have in any given topic"?

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#29

Post by panic »

coderjames wrote: post #24

>To fix this, we need to increase the currently tiny number of people who are able to write, modify, combine and share software. We need a tool that makes writing software easy and fun, and accessible to everyone. A tool that enables software literacy. Global access to niche knowledge doesn't seem like an effective use of the world's time to me. Let's look at this same idea, but replace "develop software" with "perfo…

Ok, but what makes brain surgery a good analogy? Why not replace "writing software" with "hopping on one foot" instead?

Most of us own computers that can run software, but we don't own the equipment required to do brain surgery. More people have problems that can be solved by software than can be solved by brain surgery.

I think software is more like basic arithmetic: a bit of training (plus the pen and paper you already have) and you can do something yourself that used to require a professional. Of course, software is way more powerful!

Re: What's wrong with Software nowadays and how we can fix it

#30

Post by sbov »

coderjames wrote: post #24

>To fix this, we need to increase the currently tiny number of people who are able to write, modify, combine and share software. We need a tool that makes writing software easy and fun, and accessible to everyone. A tool that enables software literacy. Global access to niche knowledge doesn't seem like an effective use of the world's time to me. Let's look at this same idea, but replace "develop software" with "perfo…

The difference is most people won't need brain surgery in their lifetime. A more relevant comparison would be car maintenance.
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