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Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

businessinsider.de

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Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#21

Post by icantdrive55 »

quickben wrote: post #6

Who's up for starting a comp sci secret society? We'll share the best ways to split a cake. The optimal algorithms on how many kittens to have to improve moods, and, best stats how to not forget important anniversaries while trying to boot up a Vulkan pipeline. :)

Good idea. It seems like, even here, people are motivated by self-interest, and self-preservation. Sometimes I feel like I just being sold something, and not necessarily the best Trick.

Finding the right society members, and then letting go if they sell-out, or become stale; might be an issue. Kinda like the professor who has tenure, but should be put out to pasture?

I do feel Stack Overflow, etc. does a great job, but since languages, platforms, algorithms, are just going to increase, it would be nice to have a group of highly respected people(irregardless of income, or spinish behind their names) tell the truth, ot the truth at a certain point in time. Sometimes the democratic method of vetting information fails.

And the pirate in me, would love to get some proprietary information on the gizmos I buy. Yes--I'm a horrid person. I want to know how my car's computer regulates my emissions, or how to fix my Apple devices.

I wouldn't mind seeing a stock site while we're at it. I honestly don't know where the SEC draws the line on insider information anymore.

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#22

Post by nyolfen »

simonw wrote: post #18

If I want to know how a classic trick is done I'll look at the Wikipedia page. It often won't reveal the secret directly, but if you check the page history you'll find an edit war between magicians which exposes exactly how it works.

now this is interesting! what exactly is the rationale used by those who would prefer it remain secret? i assume it's for the preservation of their job or hobby, but i doubt that would fly on its own.

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#23

Post by seanp2k2 »

sweettea wrote: post #19
DougN7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't the encyclopedia work (for its time)? Before the Internet it was the best, most information dense, source available. Not perfect, but better than any available alternatives.

Heck, _during_ the age of the internet it's the best, most information dense source available, far outclassing Wikipedia on the most used topics.

Curious about an example of this. As someone who spends many hours reading Wikipedia, the time and effort put into very niche subjects seems fantastic. I haven't opened a physical encyclopedia in probably 10 years.

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#24

Post by hackuser »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #23
sweettea wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck, _during_ the age of the internet it's the best, most information dense source available, far outclassing Wikipedia on the most used topics.

Curious about an example of this. As someone who spends many hours reading Wikipedia, the time and effort put into very niche subjects seems fantastic. I haven't opened a physical encyclopedia in probably 10 years.

Britannica is online; you don't need to open a book. Go search it now.

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#25

Post by Tempest1981 »

nyolfen wrote: post #22
simonw wrote: post #18

If I want to know how a classic trick is done I'll look at the Wikipedia page. It often won't reveal the secret directly, but if you check the page history you'll find an edit war between magicians which exposes exactly how it works.

now this is interesting! what exactly is the rationale used by those who would prefer it remain secret? i assume it's for the preservation of their job or hobby, but i doubt that would fly on its own.

These are essentially trade secrets -- like the recipe for KFC or Coca Cola. Except with the latter, there is plausible denial.

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#26

Post by teddyh »

quickben wrote: post #6

Who's up for starting a comp sci secret society? We'll share the best ways to split a cake. The optimal algorithms on how many kittens to have to improve moods, and, best stats how to not forget important anniversaries while trying to boot up a Vulkan pipeline. :)

Let’s call it… Dark Science

http://dresdencodak.com/2016/05/23/dark-science-64-turncoat/

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#27

Post by regularfry »

clort wrote: post #20
regularfry wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A video or whatever may be copyrighted, but it's not really possible to protect a "trick". Interestingly, this isn't quite true. People are trying to exert copyright over the specific motions under choreography protection.

I wonder how this would go down in a court of law, in that the specific motions they are claiming copyright on were /obfuscated/ or downright /concealed/ from view. I wonder if you can legally be considered to have copied something you have not seen..

I suppose what you'd end up copyrighting is the final effect, not how it's achieved. Which is, I guess, the point.

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#28

Post by klenwell »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #4

This hints at a more general problem: how does one gather a high-quality repository of knowledge on any given subject? How do you get enough stuff? How do you keep the noise down? I believe some subjects make the problem harder than others. Programming for instance is full of hard to check claims. Even established techniques are hard to assess. Say you need to parse stuff. Will you go recursive descent? LALR? Earley?…

Had something like this debate with manager at last job. Came to a head in my annual review.

Manager: "As senior developer, you lack sufficient knowledge of our most important application."

Me: "Wait. I am the one who wrote most the documentation that is in our knowledge base for that application. I am the one who set up the knowledge base."

Manager: "That is not knowledge. Knowledge is what is in your head."

Me: blinks incredulously

I departed the company shortly after this exchange.

But I think you're right. It was certainly the manager's idea that if knowledge was visibly scarce and hard to obtain, his position would be treated (and generally was, among his superiors) with the respect he felt it deserved. But I'd have to assert that this secret society dedicated to hoarding knowledge was a self-delusional sect.

That's generally been my experience.

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#29

Post by manarth »

regularfry wrote: post #27
clort wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how this would go down in a court of law, in that the specific motions they are claiming copyright on were /obfuscated/ or downright /concealed/ from view. I wonder if you can legally be considered to have copied something you have not seen..

I suppose what you'd end up copyrighting is the final effect, not how it's achieved. Which is, I guess, the point.

Without knowledge of the finer points of copyright law (IANAL), is this (the final effect) even copyrightable?

Re: Magicians fought over an ultra-secret tracker dedicated to stealing magic tricks

#30

Post by brazzledazzle »

klenwell wrote: post #28
loup-vaillant wrote: post #4

This hints at a more general problem: how does one gather a high-quality repository of knowledge on any given subject? How do you get enough stuff? How do you keep the noise down? I believe some subjects make the problem harder than others. Programming for instance is full of hard to check claims. Even established techniques are hard to assess. Say you need to parse stuff. Will you go recursive descent? LALR? Earley?…

Had something like this debate with manager at last job. Came to a head in my annual review. Manager: "As senior developer, you lack sufficient knowledge of our most important application." Me: "Wait. I am the one who wrote most the documentation that is in our knowledge base for that application. I am the one who set up the knowledge base." Manager: "That is not knowledge. Knowledge is what is in your head." Me: bli…

That's so bizarre. Was he trying to create some kind of official narrative on paper that he had the knowledge and you didn't? Or was he trying to tell you to document less and hide information?
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