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Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

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21–30 of 55 posts

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#21
post #16

Wow, the economy is stumbling and the only way out is innovation and now they are trying to make it harder to start a company. Just how do they propose we get the economy back on track? Sorry printing more money is not a long term solution to economic recovery. It amazes me that our elected officials have zero grasp of how the economy works. These are supposedly educated people and yet they consistently treat the eco…

I think it's more our current ruling class than the system per se, although that depends on how you define "system".

No system can work if you have fools running it. Our big C Constitutional system has worked better in times past when better people were in office ... and worked worse when worse people were in, e.g. Hoover and FDR making their economic mess worse and prolonging and worsening the agony.

It's just not that bad yet. While e.g. Cash for Clunkers was pure "broken window" bogus economics, do we have anything quite as vile as the Agricultural Department destroying food and preventing its production while at the same time they calculate 1/4 of the nation is malnourished (which the DoD confirmed in the WWII draft)?

Well, maybe this is as perverse, although not hardly as vile. As grellas details in some length, in a period of bad economic times (starting with the dot.com crash) our ruling class as seen fit to steadily destroy the foundations for startups. And it's a general bipartisan thing, e.g. a ruling class problem.

There are, realistically (ignoring the rosy projections of going below a trillion in FY 12, a Presidential election year), trillion dollar annual Federal deficits stretching out as far as the eye can see. Where is this money going to come from? Not from new enterprises and new industries, there will be few if any new Apples, Suns or Googles ... hmmm, Microsoft managed to bootstrap itself, but such opportunities don't come along often and the computers and their components that ran Microsoft Basic and so on were largely/almost entirely not self-funded.

Bleah.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#22
post #3

If someone's going to make this case, could they please do so from somewhere without a paywall and if at all possible, from a source who's logic is more honest than "are republicans or democrats in office right now"? IF the claims are correct though, then that needs to be fixed in the bill, particularly the part about filing with the SEC.

I'm also waiting for a second source. The only other story I've seen on this bill was also from WSJ, and also written with a heavy spin on it.

This paper's editorial page will argue against anything the current majority party does. Their news reporting is fine, but it's widely known that the editorial page leans strongly to the right.

This same editorial page argued that the healthcare bill contained death panels. Republican politicians, including Palin and Dick Cheney, are regular writers.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#23
Oh, for fuck's sake. We're not hurting for a lack of angels because of the accredited investor rules. We're hurting for a lack of angels because there aren't a lot of people who are willing to cut checks to young companies without revenue after other people they know said no. Jacking up the minimum threshold to $2.3 million from $1 million (assuming this passes in current form, which it won't) is a complete non-event for almost every founder.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#24
post #12

Have I missed a runaway profusion of investment scams targeting people with net worths between 1 million and 2.3 million? The perceived need for this just perplexes me.

The article is behind a paywall, but I'd be curious how big this population is. How much actual funding derives from investors in that range? My guess is not much, and of that I suspect a lot of it is of the "rich uncle" form, where you can just make the trusted relative or friend a "founder" and get around the rule.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#25

Oh, for fuck's sake. We're not hurting for a lack of angels because of the accredited investor rules. We're hurting for a lack of angels because there aren't a lot of people who are willing to cut checks to young companies without revenue after other people they know said no. Jacking up the minimum threshold to $2.3 million from $1 million (assuming this passes in current form, which it won't ) is a complete non-even…

I think the minimum NW change is the most minor of the issues here (especially in SV). Imposing more of a regulatory burden isn't going to make anyone more likely to cut checks, and increasing the barrier and latency to initial funding is going to make plenty of potential entrepreneurs decline to make the leap.

I think it's quite dangerous to assume such provisions aren't going to make it past whatever partisan wrangling goes on; I doubt either the dems or the GOP are going to give much of a damn about the startup ecosystem unless a lot of noise gets made about it.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#26

Oh, for fuck's sake. We're not hurting for a lack of angels because of the accredited investor rules. We're hurting for a lack of angels because there aren't a lot of people who are willing to cut checks to young companies without revenue after other people they know said no. Jacking up the minimum threshold to $2.3 million from $1 million (assuming this passes in current form, which it won't ) is a complete non-even…

If we assume, for the moment, that your thesis is correct (and ignore the friends and family type of angels), the other regulations are arguably worse than the new threshold requirements. Which the WSJ implied by the editorial board's placement of this issue at the end of the editorial.

How many startups will still be alive after they've waited as many as 120 days for the SEC to bless their fund raising effort? How many will be able to run the gauntlet of state regulators? If the Massachusetts regulator is as conservative as it was in the '80s, there will be no angel financing in that state, full stop. How bad will nanny state California be???

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#27

Oh, for fuck's sake. We're not hurting for a lack of angels because of the accredited investor rules. We're hurting for a lack of angels because there aren't a lot of people who are willing to cut checks to young companies without revenue after other people they know said no. Jacking up the minimum threshold to $2.3 million from $1 million (assuming this passes in current form, which it won't ) is a complete non-even…

I think the minimum NW change is the most minor of the issues here (especially in SV). Imposing more of a regulatory burden isn't going to make anyone more likely to cut checks, and increasing the barrier and latency to initial funding is going to make plenty of potential entrepreneurs decline to make the leap. I think it's quite dangerous to assume such provisions aren't going to make it past whatever partisan wrang…

"[...] increasing the ... latency to initial funding is going to make plenty of potential entrepreneurs decline to make the leap."

That's a very good insight. Up to 120 days is a long time to develop second thoughts, have something else come up that changes things for the investor, etc.

I suppose you could include a CD or DVD of porn as a bribe to overall speed up the SEC's processing of your request ^_^.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#28
post #2

For the full text see http://www.google.com/search?q=%22minimum+interference+from+... A good official house editorial, it discusses the more likely worse regulatory aspects before getting into the mandated new worth threshold increase.

sob

'Mandated net worth transaction increase'

Please, let's talk about the actual bill. It's at http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files/AYO09D44_xml.pdf and the relevant regulation is in Sec. 412.

It says that the Securities & exchance commission should raise the threshold, using its existing authority, as the Commission determines is appropriate and in the public interest, in light of price inflation since those figures were determined;

..and in the next section, directs the Comptroller of the Currency (the banking-specific regulator) to examine those investment thresholds and evaluate the feasibility of forming a self regulatory organization for hedge, private equity, and VC funds.

Now, I recognize there's a wide spectrum of opinions on the degree to which government should regulate the financial industry. And I totally agree that angel investment is critical to small businesses like tech startups. And I agree that a million $ in assets or an annual income of $200k is already a fairly high barrier to entry, while technological change since 1982 has significantly lowered startup costs. And so, I agree that just mindlessly jacking up these thresholds would likely be a Bad Thing - for startups, angels, and the economy.

What I'm grumpy about is the meme that the bill does mindlessly jack up the rates. The SEC's existing rules require public consultation on such changes - so if the bill passes, the thresholds will not suddenly shoot up. Rather, the SEC will announce they're considering it and invite input from the public - including people like us - for 3 months. And the SEC has been responsive to that input in the past. Mainly they're worried about not allowing another Bernie Madoff episode; it's entirely possible that they might employ their rulemaking power to carve out an exception for Angels and VCs.

And in the next section, where venture capital is explicitly mentioned, the bill directs the other regulator to study whether and how such funds - which are, obviously, quite different from banks - could be allowed to regulate themselves. the main purpose of this bill is to regulate big wall Street banks. There's a clear understanding here that small funds are not banks; they operate differently, are much more competitive, and probably shouldn't be regulated like banks. The bill supports the idea that such firms will do a better job of keeping each other honest than direct regulation by government!

Participants in a diverse a competitive market (for fund management) are best placed to decide what constitutes 'fair play'. Where self regulation fails is the situation where a few players utterly dominate the market - for example, the fact that 6 large banking firms currently manage about 60% of all capital on Wall Street - and tailor the rules to suit themselves, to the detriment of the smaller players, and of the customers. For that reason, the bill also seeks to put an end to the practice of large banks creating and capitalizing hedge funds that are nominally independent, but in reality are just legal vehicles for large institutions to take advantage of the lighter regulatory and disclosure requirements for hedge funds, while leveraging the reputation and deep pockets of the creating bank to attract customers away from smaller funds.

Why is this important? Because the SEC failed to heed warnings about fund managers like Bernie Madoff and Alan Stafford. Their competitors knew the performance of those funds was 'too good to be true' and repeatedly asked regulatory agencies to step in, but were mostly ignored. The bureaucrats' reporting requirements were being met, and they did not understand the sheer improbability of such consistent profitability in a volatile market. Competitors did: customers preferred fairy tales to honest reporting of market behavior. Hierarchical regulation failed dismally where peer review would have put a quick stop to the abuse.

Result? Jittery investors lost faith in all private capital management and VC funding fell by almost 50% in sectors like biotech and internet from 2008-2009. Some $5 billion was taken off the table - perhaps more. Less VC funding means less angel funding: no mezzanine capital means no exit or equity partnership. You can't grow an oak tree in a one gallon pot.

Self-regulation of the private capital market could reinvigorate capital formation significantly. Reduced red tape and peer review are strong economic incentives for honest and transparent risk management. Investors want transparency, and they want innovation rather than speculation, in which it is all too easy to end up on the wrong side of a zero-sum trade. There is enormous potential here to deepen and diversify the investment pool, and that would be very good news for startups.

So as it affects Angel and VC funds, the bill does two things: directs the SEC to re-examine investment thresholds in the wake of a real financial meltdown; and directs the CotC to consider reducing government regulation of private capital management, rewarding true competition with greater trust.

Instead of seeing this bill as a giant monolithic gravestone for capital formation, entrepreneurs, angels and VCs should look at the potential long-term benefits and use the public consultation process to tell regulators what kind of market they need, and how an open self-policed market could unleash a wave of innovation in the real economy. The giant Wall Street banks do not like this bill, but you can worry about them when you're ready for your IPO. Until then, they won't take your calls anyway. Consider your own interests rather than theirs.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#29
post #19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/obama_budget_def...

Hang on, I mention the fact that WSJ is hopelessly biased, and you respond with a link to an even more biased source? Ok, let's back up and try to engage your brain for a second. So you have a set of 10 year projections there. Those are predictions about the future. With me so far? Now think about what they were on January 15, 2009 as opposed to January 25, 2009. Do you think that the act of Obama taking office chang…

You asked for a second source, you have it: the CBO and the White House. The fact that heritage put CBO numbers onto a graph does not make them invalid.

Re: Senator Dodd Reform Bill Could Ruin Angel Investing

#30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, I mention the fact that WSJ is hopelessly biased, and you respond with a link to an even more biased source? Ok, let's back up and try to engage your brain for a second. So you have a set of 10 year projections there. Those are predictions about the future. With me so far? Now think about what they were on January 15, 2009 as opposed to January 25, 2009. Do you think that the act of Obama taking office chang…

You asked for a second source, you have it: the CBO and the White House. The fact that heritage put CBO numbers onto a graph does not make them invalid.

I asked for a second source regarding the financial reform bill. I'm well aware of the approximate projected size of our federal deficit, thanks.

The fact that Heritage supported Reagan, opposed Clinton, supported Bush and now claim to be concerned about deficits says a lot about the Heritage Foundation.

EDIT: Awesome, downvoted for clarifying a willful misinterpretation of my original comment. Ladies and gentlemen, your conservative movement -- it's not about facts, it's about which side you're on.

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