Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#21

Post by briandear » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 4:53 PM UTC

hx87 wrote: post #17

luso_brazilian wrote: post #13

The part of the Net Neutrality debate that is so often disregarded (and probably the reason conservatives oppose it vehemently) is that it gives FCC (an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) power to legislate. Not passing judgement or touching the merit of the whole subject but it is a very consistent position of the right in the United States to oppose regulation passed down by unelected offic…

Certainly true of the libertarian right, but not of the social conservative right, who have been rather inconsistent in opposing "FCC legislating TV language and obscenity" and "DEA or Department of Health legislating controlled substances".

As a self-identified member of the libertarian right I absolutely agree. I get into this debate with so-called Conservatives frequently: smaller government and less regulation means marriage equality (at the state level,) the dismantling of the DEA (leaving it to states to make their own rules,) and the elimination of the Dept. of Education (leaving that to states as well,) among many other things. It also calls for overturning Roe v. Wade (but not for the reasons the social-right wants but because it's really a 10th Amendment issue.)

By the way before I get downvoted for my views, I am merely pointing out that actual conservatism is a position of Federalism rather than a position on a particular agendas of certain groups.

That means a government should be closer to the people it obsensibly represents and decision should be made at the lowest level until such time as it affects a higher level. For example, if California wants to legalize heroin, that's for California to decide -- it has no practical effect on people in Louisiana.

The problem with many social conservatives is that they are intellectually inconsistent -- you can't call for government to enforce what 'you' want but then call for smaller government when it comes to what 'they' want.

It's a question of the scope of government and at what level government ought to be acting -- it really isn't about specific issues but the bigger question of "Is this the role of the Federal government."

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#22

Post by taneq » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6

dogma1138 wrote: post #5

Will dismantling the legacy also include scaling back the drone and surveillance programmes? Or is Obama's legacy is only the good parts?

The reason the drone and surveillance programs didn't take a large part in election propaganda this past year is that violating individuals' rights has bipartisan support.

Can anyone who downvoted this point to any time in the past few years that a major party in a western nation promised to reduce surveillance, increase government transparency, or add new protections for individuals?

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#23

Post by badsock » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

luso_brazilian wrote: post #13

The part of the Net Neutrality debate that is so often disregarded (and probably the reason conservatives oppose it vehemently) is that it gives FCC (an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) power to legislate. Not passing judgement or touching the merit of the whole subject but it is a very consistent position of the right in the United States to oppose regulation passed down by unelected offic…

You chose a bunch of politicized examples.

How about the USDA inspecting meat to prevent shady companies from passing off improperly stored meat as safe? Or the Department of Housing making sure that people don't add lead to paint without it being labeled as such?

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#24

Post by cmurf » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 5:00 PM UTC

luso_brazilian wrote: post #13

The part of the Net Neutrality debate that is so often disregarded (and probably the reason conservatives oppose it vehemently) is that it gives FCC (an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) power to legislate. Not passing judgement or touching the merit of the whole subject but it is a very consistent position of the right in the United States to oppose regulation passed down by unelected offic…

There is essentially zero complaining about the FAA's quasi-legislative power. All of the regulatory agencies have quasi-legislative, executive, judicial activity. This is not new. If conservatives don't like what the FCC or FAA are doing, its about businesses complaining to them directly. It has nothing to do with conservative ideology being reluctant with the nature of regulatory agencies.

The FAA regulates kites. So of course they can regulate drones, personal or commercial.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#25

Post by throwaway729 » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 5:02 PM UTC

ainiriand wrote: post #3

My opinion is that for the Trump supporter this is not a bad thing, per-se. It is going to be masked under some coat of security mixed with a bit of corporate capitalist liberty. And also, a lot of people is going to make a lot of money filtering and analyzing data.

> for the Trump supporter this is not a bad thing, per-se

This is a bad thing for all consumers, period.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#26

Post by qb45 » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 5:03 PM UTC

hristov wrote: post #19

luso_brazilian wrote: post #13

The part of the Net Neutrality debate that is so often disregarded (and probably the reason conservatives oppose it vehemently) is that it gives FCC (an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) power to legislate. Not passing judgement or touching the merit of the whole subject but it is a very consistent position of the right in the United States to oppose regulation passed down by unelected offic…

It is completely normal and accepted for various agencies to make rules within the confines of the laws that have empowered them. It is in fact necessary considering how complex our society is. Congress cannot possibly control everything. If congress has power to pass certain laws, they have power to relegate some of such authority to a governing body. If the FCC's rules are in accordance with the laws that empowered…

> If congress has power to pass certain laws, they have power to relegate some of such authority to a governing body. If the FCC's rules are in accordance with the laws that empowered it, then there is nothing wrong.

Yes, and people who don't like these regulations have the power to vote politicians who would revoke this authority. Your argument is unlikely to convince anyone. Especially people who are concerned that governments regulate too much, as parent states.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#27

Post by nickff » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 5:04 PM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #24

luso_brazilian wrote: post #13

The part of the Net Neutrality debate that is so often disregarded (and probably the reason conservatives oppose it vehemently) is that it gives FCC (an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) power to legislate. Not passing judgement or touching the merit of the whole subject but it is a very consistent position of the right in the United States to oppose regulation passed down by unelected offic…

There is essentially zero complaining about the FAA's quasi-legislative power. All of the regulatory agencies have quasi-legislative, executive, judicial activity. This is not new. If conservatives don't like what the FCC or FAA are doing, its about businesses complaining to them directly. It has nothing to do with conservative ideology being reluctant with the nature of regulatory agencies. The FAA regulates kites.…

Depends on the philosophical basis of their conservative or libertarian beliefs. Many conservatives have had fundamental issues with the administrative state, since they first opposed it in Prussia. Many of the problems which they have with the administrative state have to do with the incentives of the administrators, and the broad, arbitrary power delegated to the regulators.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#28

Post by cmurf » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 5:04 PM UTC

Net neutrality involves less regulation and thus less barrier to entry. That government requires IsPs to collect data on usage, and store it for several months is a huge burden and cost to any would be small competitors.

The loss of net neutrality just increases walled gardens. And there will be a patch work of exceptions instead of broad neutrality.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#29

Post by fib739mbbh » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 5:06 PM UTC

badsock wrote: post #23

luso_brazilian wrote: post #13

The part of the Net Neutrality debate that is so often disregarded (and probably the reason conservatives oppose it vehemently) is that it gives FCC (an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) power to legislate. Not passing judgement or touching the merit of the whole subject but it is a very consistent position of the right in the United States to oppose regulation passed down by unelected offic…

You chose a bunch of politicized examples. How about the USDA inspecting meat to prevent shady companies from passing off improperly stored meat as safe? Or the Department of Housing making sure that people don't add lead to paint without it being labeled as such?

Do you trust five unelected FCC commissioners, who are quite technically incompetent, to regulate the internet for 330 million Americans? Frankly, I'm quite weary.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#30

Post by nbb » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 5:09 PM UTC

fib739mbbh wrote: post #29

badsock wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You chose a bunch of politicized examples. How about the USDA inspecting meat to prevent shady companies from passing off improperly stored meat as safe? Or the Department of Housing making sure that people don't add lead to paint without it being labeled as such?

Do you trust five unelected FCC commissioners, who are quite technically incompetent, to regulate the internet for 330 million Americans? Frankly, I'm quite weary.

You should probably get more sleep.