How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp • Hacker News Board

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#21

Post by dbg31415 » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 7:51 PM UTC

sgslo wrote: post #16

dbg31415 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their strategy... TL;DR: They dig in like ticks with marketing folks and saddle everyone else with dated and inefficient tools. The make integrations next to impossible, exports messy, and seemingly strive to fracture teams by providing duplicate services to tools like Slack, Asana, JIRA, GitHub... etc... that all do everything Basecamp does, but better, AND also offer integrations so all your teams can play nice and…

Do you consider yourself to be an empathic person, able to understand their needs? I sincerely hope not. The inability of tech-focused people like yourself to understand that the group of people really give a about the latest tools is astounding. While there are thousands of companies who want an open, modular system, there are tens of thousands more who could care less about what an 'API' is, what an 'integration' i…

Through contracting, I've been exposed to just about every tool, and combination of tools out there over the last 20+ year as a project / product manager.

Basecamp is cancer. There isn't a team around that wouldn't be better off on Asana, or GitHub + ZenHub, or Atlasssian, or Trello... or anything else.

Would gladly dedicate 5 hours per week in training people on alternatives for free, if it meant I never had to go into a client's office who used Basecamp. The amount of busy work and slop and inefficiency it allows... I get people are blind to better options, but seriously spent a few hours researching and trying the tools. A stitch in time saves nine... measure twice, cut once...

Please compare it to using other tools and see for yourself.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#22

Post by zackkitzmiller » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 8:26 PM UTC

It's strange to me that all projects have a designer and the designer leads the project management.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#23

Post by danpalmer » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #21

sgslo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider yourself to be an empathic person, able to understand their needs? I sincerely hope not. The inability of tech-focused people like yourself to understand that the group of people really give a about the latest tools is astounding. While there are thousands of companies who want an open, modular system, there are tens of thousands more who could care less about what an 'API' is, what an 'integration' i…

Through contracting, I've been exposed to just about every tool, and combination of tools out there over the last 20+ year as a project / product manager. Basecamp is cancer. There isn't a team around that wouldn't be better off on Asana, or GitHub + ZenHub, or Atlasssian, or Trello... or anything else. Would gladly dedicate 5 hours per week in training people on alternatives for free, if it meant I never had to go i…

It looks like Basecamp would fit really nicely into our product process, and I think we have a relatively good process. It might not be for everyone, but I don't think it's fair to rule it out for all give your personal experience.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#24

Post by dasmoth » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #21

sgslo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider yourself to be an empathic person, able to understand their needs? I sincerely hope not. The inability of tech-focused people like yourself to understand that the group of people really give a about the latest tools is astounding. While there are thousands of companies who want an open, modular system, there are tens of thousands more who could care less about what an 'API' is, what an 'integration' i…

Through contracting, I've been exposed to just about every tool, and combination of tools out there over the last 20+ year as a project / product manager. Basecamp is cancer. There isn't a team around that wouldn't be better off on Asana, or GitHub + ZenHub, or Atlasssian, or Trello... or anything else. Would gladly dedicate 5 hours per week in training people on alternatives for free, if it meant I never had to go i…

>>> The amount of busy work and slop and inefficiency it allows...

(Disclaimer: I've not used it in a business setting, but do roughly know my way around because we have a "family Basecamp" for some projects)

Have you considered the possibility that something that allows for a bit of "slop and inefficiency" might make for a more pleasant, and perhaps even a more productive, working environment than neo-Taylorist perfection does? I'm not actually 100% sold on the product myself, but the way it's pitched (e.g. "Work can wait") is pretty refreshing in the contemporary marketplace.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#25

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #21

sgslo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider yourself to be an empathic person, able to understand their needs? I sincerely hope not. The inability of tech-focused people like yourself to understand that the group of people really give a about the latest tools is astounding. While there are thousands of companies who want an open, modular system, there are tens of thousands more who could care less about what an 'API' is, what an 'integration' i…

Through contracting, I've been exposed to just about every tool, and combination of tools out there over the last 20+ year as a project / product manager. Basecamp is cancer. There isn't a team around that wouldn't be better off on Asana, or GitHub + ZenHub, or Atlasssian, or Trello... or anything else. Would gladly dedicate 5 hours per week in training people on alternatives for free, if it meant I never had to go i…

[deleted]

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#26

Post by dasmoth » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 8:57 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #18

whitepoplar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overlooking who, exactly, their product is built for. Most people don't want to use ten different tools. They don't want to optimize every aspect of product management--they just want the basics to work. Most people don't understand what integrations even are. I happen to think it's a fantastic product, and so do many others. If they didn't, Basecamp wouldn't have so many paying customers! There are ce…

New Basecamp Pitches: Do you enjoy not having any sort of best practices process defined in the tool because something is either "done" or "not done"? Does the concept of phases, or different disciplines working together on an issue sail over your head? Do you frequently ask things like, "Why do you need UX, and QA?" Would you rather just say, "F'in Devs are late again" without being called out on not having requirem…

>>> Do you enjoy not having any sort of best practices process defined in the tool

To be absolutely honest: yes.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#27

Post by whybroke » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 9:13 PM UTC

betabob2 wrote: post #5

purplecpa wrote: post #2

You forgot the part about running people with different political opinions out the door

Does this really occur at Basecamp or is this hearsay?

An org publicly posted it's inner process for the benefit of the industry and was attacked randomly by a political extremist without regard for truth, damage to that org or damage to the core value of this site.

I'm sure I'll be called oppressing purplecpa's free speech just for pointing this out but no, Basecamp is not oppressive.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#28

Post by erikpukinskis » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 9:58 PM UTC

zackkitzmiller wrote: post #22

It's strange to me that all projects have a designer and the designer leads the project management.

Why? Design (in the ideal) is about making things actually achieve the outcome they are supposed to. It subsumes all other product work.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#29

Post by mattei » Thu, Nov 24, 2016, 10:48 PM UTC

The concept of large and small pieces of work, and having developers rotate between them in naturally forming teams I found to be excellent for morale and hence productivity.

Also once a cycle is locked in, it's rarely adjusted. And no timesheets.

Really basic things that IMO Basecamp is doing a great job advocating for in an industry that still needs it.

Re: How we structure our work and teams at Basecamp

#30

Post by combatentropy » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

Ever since Getting Real (https://gettingreal.37signals.com/) I've agreed with practically everything Jason Fried has ever said. Wish there were more CEOs like him.