It's worth noting that for much of the night, per the media, Trump had a 1m+ popular vote advantage. If it had turned the other way (Clinton victory w/ Trump popular vote win) people would be screaming if the Trump camp called for this.
Use the Electoral College the way it was intended
21–26 of 26 posts
Re: Use the Electoral College the way it was intended
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. Hamilton (and most founding fathers) distrusted direct democracy. A more reasonable petition would be to go the other way -- get states to elect real Electors instead of making the presidential race pseudo-populist.
Not sure I follow what you are arguing for. But what I am trying to say is that the EC is designed to protect us from people EXACTLY like trump. That is its purpose. It has nothing to do with Hillary getting the popular vote, although that does add to the argument.
If you had asked Hamilton his opinion on a woman or someone of African descent, what do you think he would have said? Even ignoring that, I suspect the founding fathers would have been aghast at the system of professional politicians. They would have similarly been aghast at Trump's personality and behavior, but I suspect his business experience would have been considered a positive.
Re: Use the Electoral College the way it was intended
#23It's worth noting that for much of the night, per the media, Trump had a 1m+ popular vote advantage. If it had turned the other way (Clinton victory w/ Trump popular vote win) people would be screaming if the Trump camp called for this.
It has nothing to do with popular vote. It has to do with qualifications. EC is intended to keep out unqualified candidates -> As Alexander Hamilton writes in “The Federalist Papers,” the Constitution is designed to ensure “that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”
And if that were to happen (Clinton victory w/ Trump popular vote win), trump would say the election was rigged and fuel fires to an uprising.
Re: Use the Electoral College the way it was intended
#24If we want the electors to vote with their conscience, and not blindly accept who won what states (2 candidates coming out of conventions is absolutely NOT what the forefathers intended) then perhaps Ted Cruz or Bernie Sanders still have a very good chance? Otherwise it sounds like the petition is calling for keeping and trusting the system as it has always been, except at the very last moment.
Re: Use the Electoral College the way it was intended
#25It's worth noting that for much of the night, per the media, Trump had a 1m+ popular vote advantage. If it had turned the other way (Clinton victory w/ Trump popular vote win) people would be screaming if the Trump camp called for this.
It has nothing to do with popular vote. It has to do with qualifications. EC is intended to keep out unqualified candidates -> As Alexander Hamilton writes in “The Federalist Papers,” the Constitution is designed to ensure “that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.” And if that were to happen (Clinton victory w/ Trump…
This assumes Clinton would meet the standard while Trump would fail it. Between Whitewatergate, her husband's impeachment hearings, Benghazi, enabling her husband's womanizing, the improprieties with the Clinton Foundation, and more, such a standard may make her ineligible as well. I think being a bad person isn't what the founders had in mind.
I also think they would have been appalled at the idea of someone who's political achievements cannot be disentangled from who they married. After all, the founding fathers weren't exactly fans of royalty.
If we want to apply intent, then the question is who would our next president be, Cruz or Sanders?
Re: Use the Electoral College the way it was intended
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. Hamilton (and most founding fathers) distrusted direct democracy. A more reasonable petition would be to go the other way -- get states to elect real Electors instead of making the presidential race pseudo-populist.
Not sure I follow what you are arguing for. But what I am trying to say is that the EC is designed to protect us from people EXACTLY like trump. That is its purpose. It has nothing to do with Hillary getting the popular vote, although that does add to the argument.
You do realize a Trump supporter could have made exactly the same argument had the situation been reversed? That the Electoral College was designed to protect us from dishonest, cronyist politicians? Who decides that the EC should be protecting YOUR candidate?
My argument is that I would like to see Electorates become real Electorates and that blaming them for Hillary's loss is just sour grapes.