Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#21

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:35 PM UTC

redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

My experience is that if they want something to really happen, most of times it will. The keyword is "really"

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#22

Post by JoshDoody » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:35 PM UTC

redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

This can be true when companies have a "focal" process where everyone is reviewed at the same time. If that's true at your company, your best bet is to shoot for an off-cycle raise (6 months out from that "focal" process) when there's a separate budget or possibly no fixed budget.

I wrote more about this here: https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/do-you-have-to-quit-yo...

Sometimes you have to quit. But it's worth pursuing an off-cycle raise and coordinating with your manager to see what's possible.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#23

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:37 PM UTC

dxxvi wrote: post #20

xchaotic wrote: post #10

You should always approach the negotiations with an upper hand - an offer from somewhere else. If it doesn't go well, just move.

You'll be given the raise, but you'll be let go very soon.

Not necessarily true. I have had several occasions where I told my boss that I had this offer and what does he recommend to do. I always got a raise and wasn't laid off.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#24

Post by JoshDoody » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

amorphid wrote: post #13

redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

It is worth nothing that another way to get a raise is to earn a promotion :)

Yep! If you're near the top of your pay grade, then there may not be much room to move up with a raise and a promotion might be the best way to go. Hard to know that without talking to your manager though. Managers will often hint at this by saying something like, "There's just no room to bump you up in your current job." That's a signal that pursuing a promotion might be the better way to go.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#25

Post by SteveNuts » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:40 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #23

dxxvi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be given the raise, but you'll be let go very soon.

Not necessarily true. I have had several occasions where I told my boss that I had this offer and what does he recommend to do. I always got a raise and wasn't laid off.

How long did you stick around after you presented the other offer?

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#26

Post by JustSomeNobody » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:41 PM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #9

redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

That surely sounds like a negotiation tactic was played on you. "I cant give you a raise without taking it from someone else" or "It's out of my hands" are cut and dry sales tactics. I am a bit pejorative to that tactic because if answered correctly, it actually harms the salesman: proclaiming you cant give X salaries means that they dont respect market rates and thus an employee is incentivized to leave to someone t…

Sure it's a weakness, but they (management) don't care. If the developer leaves, they'll hire another and in the mean time the remaining devs get to pick up the slack. It's actually a convenient excuse for the schedule slipping; they blame it on the developer who left because he "wasn't a team player", even though management knows the real reason is because they simply don't ... know ... how ... to ... manage.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#27

Post by SadWebDeveloper » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:42 PM UTC

JoshDoody wrote: post #16

Just saw a huge spike in traffic from HN and thought I would stop by to see what all the fuss is about. Glad to see people reading the article and having a productive conversation in the comments. Happy to answer questions if you have them, and I'll hop into the comments as well.

So you are the reason there are engineers that values themselves so high, that when they reach the market again they ask as much's salary as if they were CEO's?

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#28

Post by JoshDoody » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

xchaotic wrote: post #10

You should always approach the negotiations with an upper hand - an offer from somewhere else. If it doesn't go well, just move.

This can be an effective tactic (meaning it could get you a raise), but it's not my preferred method. I prefer to focus on the situation itself without bringing in that sort of leverage because of the impact it can have on the way you're perceived at your company, by your manager, by your teammates, etc.

This strategy can work, but it's a little riskier than focusing on the value and working with your manager to align your salary with that value.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#29

Post by JustSomeNobody » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #8

redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

What happens if your boss goes to their boss and says, "Hey, one of my employees is planning to jump ship for salary reasons, can we do anything here?"

You typically only get to play that card once and you'd better be looking to leave in the next two years anyway.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#30

Post by byoung2 » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

AcerbicZero wrote: post #12

conanbatt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That surely sounds like a negotiation tactic was played on you. "I cant give you a raise without taking it from someone else" or "It's out of my hands" are cut and dry sales tactics. I am a bit pejorative to that tactic because if answered correctly, it actually harms the salesman: proclaiming you cant give X salaries means that they dont respect market rates and thus an employee is incentivized to leave to someone t…

I've worked at a number of places which had this basic policy. Upper management gives middle management a % of their budget for merit increases, and its up to the middle manager to break it up how they see fit. While you can certainly try to negotiate increases in compensation outside of this, I've never seen it happen successfully.

I've never seen it happen successfully.

I've done it at least half a dozen times in my career. I was told "the maximum we can give is a $7k raise since there is a fixed pool for raises in the department."

I said if I quit and you have to replace me, not only will you have to hire 2 devs to replace me (as I pulled dev and sysops duty) and pay them market salaries, you will have to pay a recruiter 20-30%. They still wouldn't budge, so I got a counteroffer for $30k more than I was making, plus some other perks. They not only matched, they also matched for other devs on the team.

Do not fall for that fixed budget BS...the pie can always get bigger.