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Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "what would I try to invent?" question one is fascinating. If I found myself transported back to Roman times, I'd aim to make a lens. The Romans had glass so the raw material is there. With a lens you can fairly quickly go a telescope, which has immediate military application, so would perhaps be widely adopted. Astronomy might then follow, heading off the whole "Earth is the centre of Universe" thing that held b…

Telephone or at least telegraph are also easy, and may be even more valuable in a military setting.

Maybe easy, but you'd need to create lots of long insulated wire--while not impossible, very expensive.

Telescopes and semaphores would get you very far at a fraction of the cost.

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#22

I often like to fantasize how would I fare if I found myself suddenly transported into medieval times or earlier (spoiler: poorly). Articles like this make me appreciate even more how little difference there is between us and humans thousands of years ago. I wouldn't have figured out how to make a working wheel, and I've seen one. I have no idea where I picked up the idea that "ancient civilizations were dumb", but t…

The "what would I try to invent?" question one is fascinating. If I found myself transported back to Roman times, I'd aim to make a lens. The Romans had glass so the raw material is there. With a lens you can fairly quickly go a telescope, which has immediate military application, so would perhaps be widely adopted. Astronomy might then follow, heading off the whole "Earth is the centre of Universe" thing that held b…

>heading off the whole "Earth is the centre of Universe" thing that held back modern thinking //

How do you think that held us back? Do you think heliocentrism, which is similarly wrong, has/is holding us back?

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#23
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two really good literature treatments of your fantasy are Mark Twain's Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and Jules Verne's Mysterious Island. They both have as major plot elements a character who has a lot of knowledge of fabrication techniques, and recreate their technology in a primitive situation (one involves time travel, the other is stranded on a primitive island). On another note, I've heard that the…

Another good take on the idea is Lest Darkness Fall, which features time travel to 6th century Rome.

The introduction of stills and proper accounting/math is still one of my favorite bits from that book. :)

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#24

I often like to fantasize how would I fare if I found myself suddenly transported into medieval times or earlier (spoiler: poorly). Articles like this make me appreciate even more how little difference there is between us and humans thousands of years ago. I wouldn't have figured out how to make a working wheel, and I've seen one. I have no idea where I picked up the idea that "ancient civilizations were dumb", but t…

You recommended "Primitive Technology" which I thought of as well while reading the article. It would be really neat if he did an episode on making a more complicated wheel and axle structure.

Also, I would highly recommend "The Cross Time Engineer" series as it's this same scenario but works through how he's able to apply his modern knowledge as leverage to work up from a boatman earning pennies to running the country.

1 - https://www.amazon.com/Cross-Time-Engineer-Adventures-Conrad...

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#25
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telephone or at least telegraph are also easy, and may be even more valuable in a military setting.

Maybe easy, but you'd need to create lots of long insulated wire--while not impossible, very expensive. Telescopes and semaphores would get you very far at a fraction of the cost.

Telescopes reduce the number of relays, if terrain is conducive, but don't seem transformative if you have flags already?

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#26
post #18

Wheels were certainly in use well before 3500BC. http://mentalfloss.com/article/62357/who-actually-invented-w... (A casual Google check will reveal other examples as well) Also parent article mentions metal tools being needed to bore holes for the shaft. Other methods could do this also... people worked intricately with wood long before metal was used (although metal would certainly speed up mass production.) As far…

The oldest artifact mentioned in the article at "5650 to 5385 years ago" is right around 3500 BC.

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe easy, but you'd need to create lots of long insulated wire--while not impossible, very expensive. Telescopes and semaphores would get you very far at a fraction of the cost.

Telescopes reduce the number of relays, if terrain is conducive, but don't seem transformative if you have flags already?

As far as I know, the romans never used semaphore. Maybe for practical reasons like not having telescopes, but maybe the idea just didn't occur to them. It would be pretty low hanging fruit for time travelers to introduce.

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe easy, but you'd need to create lots of long insulated wire--while not impossible, very expensive. Telescopes and semaphores would get you very far at a fraction of the cost.

Telescopes reduce the number of relays, if terrain is conducive, but don't seem transformative if you have flags already?

[deleted]

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#29
post #8

If you think INVENTING the wheel took a long time, wait till you learn how long it took to put them on suitcases: http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/did-you-know-that-we-went... (spoiler alert: we got to the moon first!)

That's more a mass production thing isn't it - we had trolleys of various forms you could load your bags on to.

Strong plastics, probably made such mass production cheap enough.

People rich enough to have wheeled luggage in the past would have just used servants, it's seemingly economics rather than technology that prevented such "inventions" as attaching wheels to things permanently instead of temporarily.

A modicum of googling suggests Templar Knights had wheeled trunks in the 12th Century though.

Re: Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012)

#30

I often like to fantasize how would I fare if I found myself suddenly transported into medieval times or earlier (spoiler: poorly). Articles like this make me appreciate even more how little difference there is between us and humans thousands of years ago. I wouldn't have figured out how to make a working wheel, and I've seen one. I have no idea where I picked up the idea that "ancient civilizations were dumb", but t…

The "what would I try to invent?" question one is fascinating. If I found myself transported back to Roman times, I'd aim to make a lens. The Romans had glass so the raw material is there. With a lens you can fairly quickly go a telescope, which has immediate military application, so would perhaps be widely adopted. Astronomy might then follow, heading off the whole "Earth is the centre of Universe" thing that held b…

The problem is with the assumption behind "which fairly quickly leads to the discovery of microscopic organisms". In your scenario, who learns about microscopic organisms, and when?

As a point of comparison, who discovered the existence of North America? Was it Christopher Columbus in 1492? Or was it the Vikings in 900 AD? Or was it some mix of people who first melded together in Beringia, somewhere around 20,000 BC?

Has a fact been discovered if one person learns of it? Or is it only discovered if the news spreads to all of society? If the latter, then science is a social process, not an individual one.

The historian Fernand Braudel points out that an Italian engineer, wanting to show off his skills, built an automated saw mill in Italy, back during the 1200s. The logs were slotted automatically and run through the mill automatically. This engineer had created an important part of the Industrial Revolution, 500 years early!!! Did it matter? No. The project was merely a demonstration. The abundance of wood was never used. How could it be? There was no system of transportation for the abundance of wood, there was no finance to cover operating expenses, nor any finance to support a building boom that might use the wood, nor any modern labor market from which the mill owner could hire more workers to do the initial cutting of trees, nor was there the modern strictness regarding contracts, nor were commoners allowed to bring civil suits against the nobility (in case of default, supposing a nobleman contracted to have a manor built), nor was the judiciary independent, nor... In other words, the Industrial Revolution was a social process, involving the creation of dozens of important modern institutions, and the public's acceptance of the legitimacy of those institutions. No single engineer, however brilliant, could jump start the process.

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