Astronauts enter China's space station [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#21

Post by tjohns » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:19 AM UTC

avar wrote: post #19

jcoffland wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My statements above were neutral but yes I do think that the US and the western world in general are falling behind. What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Privatization of the US space industry is interesting but has yet to prove itself. No private institution has achieved manned orbit.

> What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Isn't it literally the case that if the US wanted to send people into space on their own hardware they could do it with months of lead time with the Falcon 9, Delta IV etc.? Those rockets aren't "human rated", but are they (particularly the Delta IV) any less safe then the Soyuz or Chinese rockets? I.e. this seems more of a "we have some rockets, but it's cheaper…

We can launch things to space, yes. But we don't have any vehicles that have life support, abort, or re-entry capabilities. It would be a short, one-way trip.

So no, we really can't send anyone to space right now.

And the Soyuz is actually pretty safe, relatively speaking. Aside from two notable failures early on, Soyuz hasn't had a fatality in 27 years.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#22

Post by ChoHag » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:22 AM UTC

avar wrote: post #19

jcoffland wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My statements above were neutral but yes I do think that the US and the western world in general are falling behind. What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Privatization of the US space industry is interesting but has yet to prove itself. No private institution has achieved manned orbit.

> What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Isn't it literally the case that if the US wanted to send people into space on their own hardware they could do it with months of lead time with the Falcon 9, Delta IV etc.? Those rockets aren't "human rated", but are they (particularly the Delta IV) any less safe then the Soyuz or Chinese rockets? I.e. this seems more of a "we have some rockets, but it's cheaper…

Minutes, seconds, can make all the difference in some cases.

Months? We're fucked.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#23

Post by ChoHag » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:23 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #5

jcoffland wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My statements above were neutral but yes I do think that the US and the western world in general are falling behind. What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Privatization of the US space industry is interesting but has yet to prove itself. No private institution has achieved manned orbit.

No private institution has achieved manned orbit. That's because manned orbit is motivated by prestige, not rational economic behavior.

Research is irrational?

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#24

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:23 AM UTC

ChoHag wrote: post #22

avar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Isn't it literally the case that if the US wanted to send people into space on their own hardware they could do it with months of lead time with the Falcon 9, Delta IV etc.? Those rockets aren't "human rated", but are they (particularly the Delta IV) any less safe then the Soyuz or Chinese rockets? I.e. this seems more of a "we have some rockets, but it's cheaper…

Minutes, seconds, can make all the difference in some cases. Months? We're fucked.

What kind of manned missions do you have in mind?

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#25

Post by ChoHag » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:25 AM UTC

throwaway123098 wrote: post #14

madaxe_again wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, we were already behind. The only significant US first in space was the lunar landing - the USSR thrashed the US with everything from Sputnik to venera to Gagarin to salyut. The only difference is that you now have a window out of your propaganda bubble. There's a reason that Chinese space progress is barely reported, if at all, in the west. It's embarrassing, and doesn't tie in with the deluded "west is best" w…

But we were not _really_ behind. We were about a year behind (if not less), and much was due to other American advantages: we didn't need huge rockets (which would launch humans into space) since American nuclear bombs were smaller. The reason we don't hear much about China is because that don't do much: Launch a man into space once a year? Land a rover on the Moon? That's 1960s news. If it would be more serious, the…

> But we were not _really_ behind.

We should keep telling ourselves that. It may also help us convince ourselves that our arsehole is indeed the best place for our head to be.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#26

Post by ChoHag » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:32 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #24

ChoHag wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minutes, seconds, can make all the difference in some cases. Months? We're fucked.

What kind of manned missions do you have in mind?

That's the point: we may not know until we have days or hours remaining to achieve them.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#27

Post by lmm » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:34 AM UTC

freyfogle wrote: post #20

vinchuco wrote: post #17

Initially read this as "US astronauts enter China's space station". That would have been interesting.

Valid confusion. Correct headline would be "Taikonauts enter China's space station" Cosmonauts = Russian Taikonauts = Chinese Astronauts = Western

Can we stop this? It's the modern-day version of the victorian collective noun parlour game, and just as stupid.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#28

Post by lmm » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:34 AM UTC

tjohns wrote: post #21

avar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Isn't it literally the case that if the US wanted to send people into space on their own hardware they could do it with months of lead time with the Falcon 9, Delta IV etc.? Those rockets aren't "human rated", but are they (particularly the Delta IV) any less safe then the Soyuz or Chinese rockets? I.e. this seems more of a "we have some rockets, but it's cheaper…

We can launch things to space, yes. But we don't have any vehicles that have life support, abort, or re-entry capabilities. It would be a short, one-way trip. So no, we really can't send anyone to space right now. And the Soyuz is actually pretty safe, relatively speaking. Aside from two notable failures early on, Soyuz hasn't had a fatality in 27 years.

We launched an Orion into orbit on top of a Delta IV, no? We could do that again and put people in if we were willing to accept the risk.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#29

Post by throwaway123098 » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:42 AM UTC

ChoHag wrote: post #25

throwaway123098 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we were not _really_ behind. We were about a year behind (if not less), and much was due to other American advantages: we didn't need huge rockets (which would launch humans into space) since American nuclear bombs were smaller. The reason we don't hear much about China is because that don't do much: Launch a man into space once a year? Land a rover on the Moon? That's 1960s news. If it would be more serious, the…

> But we were not _really_ behind. We should keep telling ourselves that. It may also help us convince ourselves that our arsehole is indeed the best place for our head to be.

Also, Explorer 1 had scientific payload (which discovered the Van-Allen belts), unlike Sputnik

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#30

Post by Tuna-Fish » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:42 AM UTC

tjohns wrote: post #21

avar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Isn't it literally the case that if the US wanted to send people into space on their own hardware they could do it with months of lead time with the Falcon 9, Delta IV etc.? Those rockets aren't "human rated", but are they (particularly the Delta IV) any less safe then the Soyuz or Chinese rockets? I.e. this seems more of a "we have some rockets, but it's cheaper…

We can launch things to space, yes. But we don't have any vehicles that have life support, abort, or re-entry capabilities. It would be a short, one-way trip. So no, we really can't send anyone to space right now. And the Soyuz is actually pretty safe, relatively speaking. Aside from two notable failures early on, Soyuz hasn't had a fatality in 27 years.

> We can launch things to space, yes. But we don't have any vehicles that have life support, abort, or re-entry capabilities.

Dragon has all three. The reason there are not people it right now is just that there is not enough experience with it to rule it safe. If the risk was ruled worth it, the very next CRS mission could take people up to the ISS.