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Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

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Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#21
Let's say (for sake of example) that you only speak English, and you are learning some other language.

Several things. The more the better; in combination is best: Physically move to the place. Befriend locals who don't use English. Shun people who do use English. Take classes. Get a job where your coworkers do not use English in the workplace. Use Quizlet or flashcards or some similar tool.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#22
The other comments about speaking the language daily (i.e. living in a country that speaks the language) are dead on. If that is not practical for you, then you can help retain and increase your _vocabulary_ with Anki [1], but it is no substitute for actually speaking.

For Android phones, you can sync Anki with Ankidroid [2].

[1] http://ankisrs.net/

[2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki...

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#23

Rinse lather repeat. It took about 2 years before I was confident enough in my German skills to consider myself conversationally fluent at a beginner level. I spent four years of devoted study (yes high school) to get the concepts down, and now I've basically tried to maintain it in the 8 years since. For me it was important to focus on syntax and semantics more than vocabulary. It's super easy to find a translation…

I'm just overly fond of the procedural and qualitative approach of grammar and syntax first, but I know that runs contrary to how other individuals tend to acquire language. You do have to find some individual pieces beforehand so you can have pieces to put together, so obviously vocabulary itself functions as an important part, but I find that you are more likely to become fluent in a language when you've trained yourself to think with the logical approach that the language you're learning utilizes.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#24
Did not take any holidays. You need to work on it every day, 365 days per year. Lots of little tricks. Like reading books written for 10 year-olds, by native authors of the language and set in a country where this is the native language. No translations of famous English writers.

Keep track of words you don't kn ow during the day, and look them up in the dictionary every evening. Go out of your way to meet native speakers. When I worked in Silicon Valley, I listened to Spanish language radio stations only, watched only SPanish language TV networks, only read Spanish language newspapers which happened to be free, and only spoke Spanish in stores and restaurants. It helped that 50% of population in SV is hispanic, and I was a foreigner in the USA just like them.

Another trick, after you check the news in English, read it again on the net in your target language. And watch TV series with subtitles in the same language. For instance, I watched Russian TV series with subtitles in Russian. That helped me when my ear could not make out the words. Also, not movies, but TV series because the same characters appear again and again so you get used to their quirks of speech and can learn faster.

Buy a kids encyclopedia in the target language. Don't be afraid to download and read university papers and dissertations in linguistics about your target language.

And finally, get married to someone who speaks the language and raise bilingual kids.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#25
post #2

I am assuming you are talking about spoken languages. Necessity and/or Motivation is usually the force behind it

IME I needed both. I moved to an English-speaking country in my early teens, knowing virtually no English at all. Naturally I needed remedial classes, but IIRC I wasn't progressing very quickly, for I wasn't sufficiently motivated, and would have likely needed to take them throughout secondary school. That is until I got interested in computers. I devoured all magazines, books, etc. on computing I could get my hands on, and within that school year I "graduated" from the remedial classes. So I needed both to become fluent in English.

I've got another example where I had motivation but not necessity. A few years later I became interested in manga / anime, back when translations of either were scarce. So I signed up for Japanese classes, and eventually even went to Japan as an exchange student for a summer. I continued to take lessons in college, until I'd essentially run out of classes to take. Having done all that, I would say my Japanese proficiency was merely functional. I probably could have passed JLPT N1 had I tried, but I didn't bother since I wasn't planning on working or studying in Japan. In this case, IMO I was reasonably motivated, but since the necessity component was missing, I never made it over the hump and became fluent.

Finally, the kpop craze got me somewhat interested in learning Korean, but I barely know how to say hello / goodbye. I'll blame that on my brain plasticity though. :-P

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#26
I know English, Spanish and Japanese. I started studying Japanese in college and I live and work in Japan now. Structured lessons were fundamental in becoming fluent but when I was here I sang a ton of Karaoke whenever I could. It really helped my pronunciation and vocabulary. Definitely recommend signing to learn language.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#27
post #12

I'm fluent in German, English. I'm living in Japan and am almost fluent in Japanese and quarter fluent in Korean. I also recently started Hungarian and Spanish. The most important part in my opinion is to live in a country that speaks the language you want to learn. You have to immerse yourself as much as possible with the culture and language. Also very important that you aren't afraid to try to use what you learned…

Strongly agree that wordlists are useless (beyond the first few hundred that you are going to see constantly anyway) and making connections is key to retaining vocabulary.

Another tip is to pull vocabulary lists from reading material, and then to review them you just re-read that text until it becomes easy.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#28
At different points of my life I spoke Thai, Malay, Italian, French and a teeny bit of Mandarin. I would say the ones I became extremely fluent with were the result of total immersion (living in that country - being fully immersed in it for years).

I've known expats who go to Thailand, live in western communities, associate with other westerners mostly speaking English and deal with locals mostly on a limited level don't get very far. I've also met foreigners who come to live among locals in local neighborhoods and interact with the locals on a daily basis get very good at the language.

I don't think there's any way around it.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#29

I lived in the US for 20 years — came here when I was 10. I'm still not completely fluent in English. A lot of the learning came from interacting with others who mainly spoke in English, but in some occasions I still have to make an effort in order to get pronunciation and grammar correct. In retrospect, what helped me the most in the early days were reading children's books and copying them down on separate piece of…

Children's books are very helpful, and give you a kind of fluency with the low-level stuff that you will never get from SAT lists, etc. I think exposure to children's rhymes, poems, and nursery stories is useful if you really want to be fluent and probably necessary to get to a native-like level.

(By the way: "vocabulary" is not countable!)

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