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ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

resinos.io

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Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#21

Post by davidw »

lifeeth_ wrote: post #11
chapingt wrote: post #7

I always have trouble calling platforms that can run a system of this magnitude "embedded." For some reason I always had the term "single-purpose" linked with the idea of an embedded system. Once you add tons of RAM, a relatively powerful processor, and can only last a couple of hours on a battery--I feel like then it's just a small general purpose computer.

For a long time, I struggled with a similar view. The lines for this are blurring very fast though. Example - Amazon's kindle is more or less a single purpose system - but runs linux, lasts for days on battery, has good RAM and a relatively powerful processor.

One useful metric is how far something is along the "general purpose computer - appliance" continuum. Something can be quite powerful with lots of resources, and still function as an appliance that people do a relatively restricted set of things with.

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#22

Post by pjmlp »

alexandros wrote: post #17
roymurdock wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I see where you fit in - deeply embedded systems with real-time constraints tend to use a certified hypervisor solution to separate runtimes. Traditional IT solutions can use Linux KVM or a full Docker implementation. ResinOS fits in the middle. Familiarity with Docker will allow makers to get multiple runtimes up and running on higher-end (but small) SoCs...but for what type of applications?

There are a lot of companies looking at the intersection of containers and embedded. Some call it "Fog Computing" others "Edge Computing", others still "Industrial Internet" and so forth. We have a number of use cases on the resin.io website of people using this technology in production today, but some of the larger ones we're not allowed to talk about :(. ResinOS does include a full Docker engine however. It's just…

Would that include high integrity like support? Just curious.

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#23

Post by posborne »

alexandros wrote: post #2

Hi everyone, resin.io founder here, happy to answer any and all questions. We just released resinOS at ELCE a few hours ago (Embedded Linux Coference, Europe), happy to see it made HN!

I have used Yocto for building a new of embedded Linux systems in production. I understand that Yocto is used for the resin hostOS images and Docker is used for the images run as containers.

Is it possible or has any thought been put into making it possible to use Yocto for building the containerized images that are deployed to resin (probably in the form of docker images)? Although this is less convenient than using off-the-shelf docker images and customizing with your own docker files, I believe many of the benefits of Yocto in terms of building a custom embedded linux system might also be recognized within the context of resin.

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#24

Post by roymurdock »

chapingt wrote: post #7

I always have trouble calling platforms that can run a system of this magnitude "embedded." For some reason I always had the term "single-purpose" linked with the idea of an embedded system. Once you add tons of RAM, a relatively powerful processor, and can only last a couple of hours on a battery--I feel like then it's just a small general purpose computer.

I work for a firm that sizes various segments of the embedded hardware and software market. Here's our definition:

A specialized or dedicated computer used to control devices (such as automobiles, home and office appliances, handheld units of all kinds, etc.) where the operating system and application functions are often combined in the same program. An embedded system implies a fixed set of functions programmed into a non-volatile memory (ROM, flash memory, etc.) in contrast to a general-purpose computing machine. However, sometimes single board computers and rack-mounted computers are called “embedded computers” if used to control a terminal interface, machine, motor, etc. An embedded device or system may contain more than one operating system and/or processors (microprocessor, microcontroller, etc.). Specifically excluded from this definition are all types of enterprise computing machines deployed as general-purpose computers (i.e., desktop PCs, standard laptop PCs, enterprise servers, etc.). Our definition of embedded system/device is intended to give a good indication of the potential operating system and run-time software royalty opportunity within the embedded systems market.

So there you go. As you can see our definition has grown substantially over the years as the embedded and IT/enterprise markets have converged. It's much more helpful to think in terms of vendors though.

Traditional embedded silicon vendors include NXP/Freescale, Renesas, Microchip, Rockchip, Cypress/Broadcom etc. Traditional embedded OS vendors include Wind River (Intel), Green Hills, Express Logic, Enea, Micrium, etc.

Intel/Samsung/TI and Microsoft attribute small portions of their revenue to embedded systems, but they don't show up often in conversations with embedded vendors in their respective markets...they focus on enterprise servers/computers/software so they are usually less relevant to the day-to-day going ons of embedded vendors (until they swoop in with the intent to acquire).

This is changing though...has been fun advising some larger players on embedded strategies. Interesting time to be in the market for sure.

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#25

Post by alexandros »

posborne wrote: post #23
alexandros wrote: post #2

Hi everyone, resin.io founder here, happy to answer any and all questions. We just released resinOS at ELCE a few hours ago (Embedded Linux Coference, Europe), happy to see it made HN!

I have used Yocto for building a new of embedded Linux systems in production. I understand that Yocto is used for the resin hostOS images and Docker is used for the images run as containers. Is it possible or has any thought been put into making it possible to use Yocto for building the containerized images that are deployed to resin (probably in the form of docker images)? Although this is less convenient than using…

Yes! We've actually created extremely small base images with Yocto for our own agent at resin.io, and it's a really cool approach, though it is very complex to set up and handle, and has approximately none of the elegance of a Dockerfile. Also, resinOS images are available as containers for some very specific use cases, so that's another instance where we've done something like that. Perhaps we should write up more about the approach.

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#26

Post by creshal »

mrlambchop wrote: post #20

This is awesome! I always loved Arduino as it promoted a few core ideas (apps are highly portable, the environment is standardized over boards and devices) - this allows the hobbyist / stack overflow reader to make some awesome hacks in a few hours and really reduces the barrier to entry for maker projects. However, in the last few years, I've wanted a similar type of environment for all the Linux boards that now clu…

> A movement away from Arduino might be around the corner if there is something as accessible but much more powerful available. The block is no doubt "power management" - suspending/hibernating Linux boards for battery operation etc...

What are RasPi and similar boards lacking? Power management? Not enough GPIO pins?

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#27

Post by Matthias247 »

chapingt wrote: post #7

I always have trouble calling platforms that can run a system of this magnitude "embedded." For some reason I always had the term "single-purpose" linked with the idea of an embedded system. Once you add tons of RAM, a relatively powerful processor, and can only last a couple of hours on a battery--I feel like then it's just a small general purpose computer.

I think there are simply 2 views for the systems: One is the developers view, the other the end users view.

From the developers view these Linux based systems are pretty much general purpose computers.

However what mostly counts for the definition of "embedded system" is the end users view. The end user (customer) gets a complete system for a specific purpose, he can't install any own applications and partly can't even update the system.

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#28

Post by creshal »

roymurdock wrote: post #12
alexandros wrote: post #2

Hi everyone, resin.io founder here, happy to answer any and all questions. We just released resinOS at ELCE a few hours ago (Embedded Linux Coference, Europe), happy to see it made HN!

I think I see where you fit in - deeply embedded systems with real-time constraints tend to use a certified hypervisor solution to separate runtimes. Traditional IT solutions can use Linux KVM or a full Docker implementation. ResinOS fits in the middle. Familiarity with Docker will allow makers to get multiple runtimes up and running on higher-end (but small) SoCs...but for what type of applications?

There's a lot of devices that need to run unsupervised, but still have (relatively) beefy hardware and commodity software. Digital signage stations are one example, some customers want a (relatively modern) Webkit/Blink based browser based system so they can deploy React/Angular/etc based applications on it instead of needing to hire people who know Qt Embedded or similar. The overhead doesn't really matter for such applications: The backlight for a 40+ inches large touchscreen will always consume more power than the other components combined, so you can put in an actively cooled 20W dual/quadcore APU just fine, and having a full OS allows running other services on it (SSH/VPN solutions for remote management, e.g.).

(Disclaimer, we've been doing exactly that since 2011. I've been wanting to move to a containerized approach for years, but our customers are happy enough with the current solution that they don't want to fund it. Alas.)

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#29

Post by posborne »

alexandros wrote: post #25
posborne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Yocto for building a new of embedded Linux systems in production. I understand that Yocto is used for the resin hostOS images and Docker is used for the images run as containers. Is it possible or has any thought been put into making it possible to use Yocto for building the containerized images that are deployed to resin (probably in the form of docker images)? Although this is less convenient than using…

Yes! We've actually created extremely small base images with Yocto for our own agent at resin.io, and it's a really cool approach, though it is very complex to set up and handle, and has approximately none of the elegance of a Dockerfile. Also, resinOS images are available as containers for some very specific use cases, so that's another instance where we've done something like that. Perhaps we should write up more a…

Awesome, I would love to see hear more about the approach you guys used for building base images with Yocto. I'm willing to give up a little elegance for control and reproducibility.

Re: ResinOS, run Docker containers on embedded devices

#30

Post by SEJeff »

alexandros wrote: post #13
SEJeff wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from HypriotOS? http://blog.hypriot.com

The hypriot guys are doing great work, and we share a common mission in spreading containers to embedded development. ResinOS is built with production deployments as a first goal, and so has a read-only rootFS, supports atomic host OS updates, is ported (and portable) to a lot of device types (via Yocto) and in general has many more "embedded" characteristics than Debian, on which hypriotOS is based. I do however wan…

Excellent response and yes, HypriotOS is based on Raspbian, which is a Debian derivative. Glad to hear you're using Yocto as well. I'll certainly have to check this out.

Do you have anyone using Kubernetes on ResinOS by chance? I've got a small fleet of small hardware and had started looking at running k8s on HypriotOS, but this looks a bit more custom built.

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