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Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

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Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#21

Post by plan6 »

throwanem wrote: post #15
plan6 wrote: post #14

Note that QF-16's, not F-16's, are the unmanned/drone version of the F-16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting... PS- I'd be worried about these being controlled by an AI or hacked. MQ-9's are small and go 300 MPH, so, while they're deadly, I wasn't worried about them as much. F-16's can go 1,350 MPH and can be "well-armed". USAF…

These are target drones, and unlikely to be armed with anything or operated near high-value infrastructure susceptible to the relatively minor impact damage of which a QF-16 might be capable.

F-16's can carry nukes.

And why would you have a small very expensive fleet of fast moving drones that can carry bombs? Targets/training only? Wouldn't that be wasteful? Wouldn't those be expensive to just send in for recon or shooting down a plane or even a bombing run that they could use other manned aircraft for? What would they be best suited for?

"...the Pentagon is also modifying Turkey’s current fleet of F-16s to carry the bomb.":

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22037

I'm not against the USAF trying to improve its defense.

But, if a remote-controlled nuclear-armed jet were controlled by an AI, or by a terrorist, that would be a big problem.

I understand that it's expensive to find and train good pilots, and it takes a long time. They are a limited resource. So, I can see why you'd want to replace them with drones- you save a lot of money, could expand the fleet more quickly and with less expense, eventually.

But, that expense is a safeguard. It keeps really bad things from being able to happen. We shouldn't be making anything nuclear-capable more easily remotely-controllable. And if the US does it, others will. Even if the US were to be completely safe about it, other states might not be.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#22

Post by s_q_b »

davb wrote: post #8

"Initial operating capability or Initial operational capability (IOC) is the state achieved when a capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The term is often used in government or military procurement." Military MVP? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_operating_capability

IOC = Initial Operating Capability FOC = Full Operating Capability

Most contracts have tranches of payment released with each phase: concept, IOC, FOC. IOC has also come to mean, "This works, but we aren't sure enough we got all the bugs." So... I suppose it's more like a military Beta.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#23

Post by therobot24 »

s_q_b wrote: post #22
davb wrote: post #8

"Initial operating capability or Initial operational capability (IOC) is the state achieved when a capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The term is often used in government or military procurement." Military MVP? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_operating_capability

IOC = Initial Operating Capability FOC = Full Operating Capability Most contracts have tranches of payment released with each phase: concept, IOC, FOC. IOC has also come to mean, "This works, but we aren't sure enough we got all the bugs." So... I suppose it's more like a military Beta.

just went through the ACQ training this week, IOC means the plane has passed operational testing (IOT&E). Meaning there should be very few, if any, bugs left. The Full Rate Production (FRP) decision milestone was already passed and the contract should already be awarded for production - within the lifecycle of the product we are now in the Operations and Support phase, meaning fielding.

FOC just means all unit lots are fielded.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#24

Post by protomyth »

plan6 wrote: post #21
throwanem wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are target drones, and unlikely to be armed with anything or operated near high-value infrastructure susceptible to the relatively minor impact damage of which a QF-16 might be capable.

F-16's can carry nukes. And why would you have a small very expensive fleet of fast moving drones that can carry bombs? Targets/training only? Wouldn't that be wasteful? Wouldn't those be expensive to just send in for recon or shooting down a plane or even a bombing run that they could use other manned aircraft for? What would they be best suited for? "...the Pentagon is also modifying Turkey’s current fleet of F-16s…

from the article "The decision by ACC certifies 15 QF-16s ready and available for target operations, according to an ACC release."

As throwanem said these are target drone which we have been doing with the F-4 and other planes for a long time. They have gone beyond their service hours for the airframes.

Nobody loads nukes on a target drone. Nobody uses target drones near civilians.

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#25

Post by protomyth »

coldcode wrote: post #17

It doesn't say how they are flown, is it remote pilots or some kind of AI? The latter would seem a scary concept at this point. Imagine it being hackable...

http://www.boeing.com/defense/support/qf-16/index.page

http://www.boeing.com/features/2013/09/bds-qf16-09-23-13.pag...

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#27

Post by plan6 »

zrail wrote: post #2

This is nothing new. The USAF has had unmanned F-4 phantoms for decades that are used for target practice and live fire weapons testing. The F-4 fleet is being replaced with surplus F-16s.

"Where Have All the Phantoms Gone?" (2008) is a good personal story about the QF-4's:

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/where-have-all-...

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#28

Post by plan6 »

protomyth wrote: post #24
plan6 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F-16's can carry nukes. And why would you have a small very expensive fleet of fast moving drones that can carry bombs? Targets/training only? Wouldn't that be wasteful? Wouldn't those be expensive to just send in for recon or shooting down a plane or even a bombing run that they could use other manned aircraft for? What would they be best suited for? "...the Pentagon is also modifying Turkey’s current fleet of F-16s…

from the article "The decision by ACC certifies 15 QF-16s ready and available for target operations, according to an ACC release." As throwanem said these are target drone which we have been doing with the F-4 and other planes for a long time. They have gone beyond their service hours for the airframes. Nobody loads nukes on a target drone. Nobody uses target drones near civilians.

"Next up, live fire testing moves to Holloman Air Force Base, N.M. The military will ultimately use QF-16s for weapons testing and other aerial training."

http://www.boeing.com/features/2013/09/bds-qf16-09-23-13.pag...

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#29

Post by protomyth »

plan6 wrote: post #28
protomyth wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from the article "The decision by ACC certifies 15 QF-16s ready and available for target operations, according to an ACC release." As throwanem said these are target drone which we have been doing with the F-4 and other planes for a long time. They have gone beyond their service hours for the airframes. Nobody loads nukes on a target drone. Nobody uses target drones near civilians.

"Next up, live fire testing moves to Holloman Air Force Base, N.M. The military will ultimately use QF-16s for weapons testing and other aerial training." http://www.boeing.com/features/2013/09/bds-qf16-09-23-13.pag...

When you shot at a drone its called "weapons testing".

Re: Unmanned F-16s Declared IOC

#30

Post by jdavis703 »

dfsegoat wrote: post #6

Sort of puts our defense spending and progress in perspective when the USAF takes a $21M 4th gen fighter - when most of the world's air forces still have 4th gen fighters in development , mind you - and basically uses it like the cheap clay target shooting skeet you can buy at Walmart.

I'd rather have the military test their capabilities in production, than have them wait for a war to see if everything works.
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