Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

arxiv.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 37 posts

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#21

Post by bike4beer »

theptip wrote: post #17

Some points that are interesting to me, and warrant further investigation: 1) Milling of malts is no longer required. As a microbrewery operator, now I don't need to come in the day before to run the mill for a planned brew. Massive win on scheduling and convenience. 2) "Concerning mashing and sparging, the new equipment allows to eliminate sparging altogether since the pulverization of cavitating malts ... prevents…

1) that's the primary implication of paper 2) their claim is a 3-5% improvement of extraction and no sparging required, thus a 30% saving's in power & water 3) given that malting is now done with cavitation ( ultra-sound ) its clear that this does not santize, as by defn sanitizing kill's biological life, including bacterial organisms. 4) Boiling hop's for 0-120 minutes is well understood and complex, I doubt you will find DogFish 90min-IPA, coming out of a 30 nano-second SONIC-SESSION.

...

'Ultra-Sound Assisted Extraction' is now being applied to all foods. To Coffee, and of course our beer.

Sonic's can effect the germination of malting barley, and like in this article replace the milling/malting phase of the brewing process.

The question to ask is why? Why apply sonic's to germinating grains? So they may germinate quicker. Why apply sonic's to malted grains, to break them up ( mill ) and to extract the sugar ( mash ) to a higher efficiency?

Why would you want to do this? More efficient mashing? ( 3% ), and germination ( maybe save 6-12 hours ), because if you brewing 100,000 liters of piss-beer an hour this is real money to be made.

Currently BUDweiser only buys the best malt, & hops. A ultra-sonic system that improves efficiency say 3-5% allow a cheaper or lower quality product to be bought and fed into the system.

What does all this mean for the home-brewer? Nada

What are the health effects of ultra-sound on germination? Nobody knows and nobody cares. Chemically what does ultra-sound do to our food when the starches are converted to sugar? Again nobody cares, google it, you'll not find a mention anywhere.

What is the benefit of changing the modern ( 500 year old ) brewing process? Nada. Belgium Monks got it right a long time ago. Like we used to say in Unix back in the 1970's, "If it works, Don't Fix It".

Slow-Food, and Slow-Beer people. That is what's best in life.

LED lights were sold, over neon, over incandescent, now we find out LED is bad, when will they tell us the ultra-sonic processed foods are bad for our health? Probably only after the corpses are on laying on the streets.

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#22

Post by bike4beer »

DavidWanjiru wrote: post #19
couchand wrote: post #12

I'm highly skeptical of the claim that such a system can plausibly "preserv[e] beer’s organoleptic qualities". The claim is repeated in the conclusion in a Trumpian fashion: "We anticipate that the new CHC brewing process affords beer of taste, flavor, body and color comparable with state-of-the-art craft beers, while offering further advantages, beyond the discussed ones, that will be the subject of a forthcoming st…

Wait, are we now using Trump's name to make an adjective in the same way we've used Orwell's and Kafka's?

This is a new version of Godwin's law, ...

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazism or Trump approaches 1"

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#23

Post by lucozade »

DavidWanjiru wrote: post #19
couchand wrote: post #12

I'm highly skeptical of the claim that such a system can plausibly "preserv[e] beer’s organoleptic qualities". The claim is repeated in the conclusion in a Trumpian fashion: "We anticipate that the new CHC brewing process affords beer of taste, flavor, body and color comparable with state-of-the-art craft beers, while offering further advantages, beyond the discussed ones, that will be the subject of a forthcoming st…

Wait, are we now using Trump's name to make an adjective in the same way we've used Orwell's and Kafka's?

It's quite handy. I can't think of another adjective that means both Orwellian and Kafka-esque.

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#24

Post by Pitarou »

DavidWanjiru wrote: post #19
couchand wrote: post #12

I'm highly skeptical of the claim that such a system can plausibly "preserv[e] beer’s organoleptic qualities". The claim is repeated in the conclusion in a Trumpian fashion: "We anticipate that the new CHC brewing process affords beer of taste, flavor, body and color comparable with state-of-the-art craft beers, while offering further advantages, beyond the discussed ones, that will be the subject of a forthcoming st…

Wait, are we now using Trump's name to make an adjective in the same way we've used Orwell's and Kafka's?

trump (2) verb

attempt to convince an audience by repeating an assertion many times

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#25

Post by icantdrive55 »

DavidWanjiru wrote: post #19
couchand wrote: post #12

I'm highly skeptical of the claim that such a system can plausibly "preserv[e] beer’s organoleptic qualities". The claim is repeated in the conclusion in a Trumpian fashion: "We anticipate that the new CHC brewing process affords beer of taste, flavor, body and color comparable with state-of-the-art craft beers, while offering further advantages, beyond the discussed ones, that will be the subject of a forthcoming st…

Wait, are we now using Trump's name to make an adjective in the same way we've used Orwell's and Kafka's?

And the top level domains have been taken.

For all his faults, I thought he came across pretty good tonight.

I've never liked the man on a lot of levels, but tonight he did better than I anticipated. He has been doing some homework.

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#26

Post by justincormack »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #9

Ok, so there has to be a comedy plot in there where two guys trying to make beer with hydrodynamic cavitation end up discovering a viable cold fusion reaction but keep drinking the experiment results :-) That said, I found their off hand mention of using it as an alternate to high temperature pasteurization as much more intriguing. Mostly because I detest the "cooked" taste of ultra-pasteurized cream but have been fi…

You need to buy unpasteurized cream! Even better. But yes the ultra stuff is gross, standard pasteurization is ok, and widely available in the UK. You have to hunt for unpasteurized though.

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#27

Post by elktea »

bike4beer wrote: post #21
theptip wrote: post #17

Some points that are interesting to me, and warrant further investigation: 1) Milling of malts is no longer required. As a microbrewery operator, now I don't need to come in the day before to run the mill for a planned brew. Massive win on scheduling and convenience. 2) "Concerning mashing and sparging, the new equipment allows to eliminate sparging altogether since the pulverization of cavitating malts ... prevents…

1) that's the primary implication of paper 2) their claim is a 3-5% improvement of extraction and no sparging required, thus a 30% saving's in power & water 3) given that malting is now done with cavitation ( ultra-sound ) its clear that this does not santize, as by defn sanitizing kill's biological life, including bacterial organisms. 4) Boiling hop's for 0-120 minutes is well understood and complex, I doubt you wil…

LED is bad?

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#29

Post by mkesper »

glibgil wrote: post #20
Dagwoodie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this something a layman hobbyist can get into or try?

I'll just google the "Braumeister model 50 L brewer" mentioned in the paper and here you go http://shop.speidels-braumeister.de/en

They use it only for comparing their method to the traditional brewing process.

Re: A novel brewing process via controlled hydrodynamic cavitation

#30

Post by mrob »

elktea wrote: post #27
bike4beer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) that's the primary implication of paper 2) their claim is a 3-5% improvement of extraction and no sparging required, thus a 30% saving's in power & water 3) given that malting is now done with cavitation ( ultra-sound ) its clear that this does not santize, as by defn sanitizing kill's biological life, including bacterial organisms. 4) Boiling hop's for 0-120 minutes is well understood and complex, I doubt you wil…

LED is bad?

LEDs often emit more blue spectrum light than older technologies, which makes them more effective at stopping melatonin production. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsically_photosensitive_r...

LEDs also switch much faster than older lights, which means people can pulse-width modulate them, causing annoying flicker for people who're sensitive to it.

Admittedly both these problems are avoidable, but in practice they're seen as LED problems because they're so common with LEDs.

Post reply on HN