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LXQt 0.11 Released

lxqt.org

21–30 of 97 posts

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#21

So while this is on HN, I wanted to talk a bit about LXQt and desktop OSes in general. Context: I'm one of the original leads on LXQt, and I initiated the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE-Qt into LXQt. I've been using LXQt as my main desktop for several years now. I've kept up with what other desktops have been doing. I've been especially impressed by the efforts of the GNOME team, and especially disappointed with the clus…

Well, I'm glad to hear someone like you (a DE developer) say these things. GNOME went off the rails years ago, and KDE seems to be headed that way with KDE 5 (or is it Plasma 5? or Frameworks 5? or...? Just KDE 5!). I'll be keeping an eye on LXQt. In the meantime, KDE 4 still serves me pretty well. Dolphin is a fantastic file manager for when you need a GUI, and KWin is a great window manager. And KHotkeys makes conf…

> Maybe a new XDG-NG could be formed by LXQt, Cinnamon, MATE, and TDE, the DEs that seem to be the most sane, focused on stability and usefulness.

The point of XDG isn't about a particular user experience, it's about cross-desktop compatibility. If you lose the two biggest desktops, then it's doomed to uselessness. Like a W3C that Mozilla and Google don't listen to.

The first step of standardization is to get the people with the most pull to care. The problem is nobody cares anymore.

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#22

So while this is on HN, I wanted to talk a bit about LXQt and desktop OSes in general. Context: I'm one of the original leads on LXQt, and I initiated the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE-Qt into LXQt. I've been using LXQt as my main desktop for several years now. I've kept up with what other desktops have been doing. I've been especially impressed by the efforts of the GNOME team, and especially disappointed with the clus…

> Not to mention the sad state of UI toolkits right now. This isn't about GTK vs. Qt or anything... but you can't pick up your favourite language (Python, JS, whatever) and easily write cross-platform apps that work well on Linux. This frustrates me to no end. - Qt is almost impossible to fully bind. The vague hacks we had all got tossed out the windows with the move from Qt4 to Qt5. I've given up putting my own effo…

> Qt is almost impossible to fully bind.

You know a system is hard to write bindings for when noone is able to create Lua bindings for it.

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#23

So while this is on HN, I wanted to talk a bit about LXQt and desktop OSes in general. Context: I'm one of the original leads on LXQt, and I initiated the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE-Qt into LXQt. I've been using LXQt as my main desktop for several years now. I've kept up with what other desktops have been doing. I've been especially impressed by the efforts of the GNOME team, and especially disappointed with the clus…

I read this thread and the issues you and others talked about hit too close to home.

I also took it on me to stop slacking off and give LXQt a shot, and damn I loved it.

I'm currently using Xfce+bspwm but I'm swapping out Xfce for LXQt in a day or two and will hopefully start contributing and put my time to good use.

Thank you (and the other LXQt contributors) for all the effort you've put into the project.

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#24
Any of you use a lightweight desktop environment like on high end expensive system. Why? Does it matter if you end up using lightweight desktop environment on a low end system and end up using resource intensive apps on top of it?

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#25

So while this is on HN, I wanted to talk a bit about LXQt and desktop OSes in general. Context: I'm one of the original leads on LXQt, and I initiated the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE-Qt into LXQt. I've been using LXQt as my main desktop for several years now. I've kept up with what other desktops have been doing. I've been especially impressed by the efforts of the GNOME team, and especially disappointed with the clus…

Guessing wildly:

1. The linux desktop has been reworked so hard and so many times to try and attract and accomodate those good ol' "my mom uses linux!" as a means of obtaining critical mass for the other things (drivers, well-polished software, ...). The few that this model attract are equally fine with their smartphone and a laptop built around a browser.

2. From (1), it is not even an attractive target for dev- work. I used Linux as a my main "desktop" from the days of downloading slackware over BBS in the early 90ies up until I was introduced to OSX around 10.4. I tried going back after Apple making it increasingly more awful after 10.6. I hated every minute of it - all the things I hated with new OSX was replicated, poorly. an endless stream of internal frustration "no I don't want to automount this usb stick what is wrong with you?", "why is my volume settings jumping around", "yes I plugged in a device, I don't need to be notified that I did what I did please shut up", "oh so two audio feeds with different sample rates are a no go?", "my mouse is low on batteries? I'm not using it, it's not even connected?", "hotplug monitor? enjoy panic and reboot", "I know there's updates to be had, there's always updates to be had, fuck off - daddy's working". I waste more time turning things off than I previously ever had to do turning things on. Now my (non-NIH) regular linux desktop use is confined to VMs that I just reset from template, do my thing and then murder.

3. Not even 'cool' anymore. The 'fragmentation' of the desktop was an attractive feature to young me. Jumping between WindowMaker to Enlightenment to KDE opened a lot of ideas as to what this thing could be used for, I enjoyed tinkering (still do, but not on this chimera). Now they are all convering into mostly the same confused pig but with different shades of lipstick. The same useless animations and effects and none of the useful ones.

"We" lost the mobile race (and never really took to participating) and payed the price with what is effectively a kernel fork. There's a good chance that VR can actually turn into the next "Desktop" (displays are nearly there, eyetrackers, haptic gloves etc. incoming) to make the browser look more pathetic. How many projects are seriously working on it, or is that already lost?

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#26

So while this is on HN, I wanted to talk a bit about LXQt and desktop OSes in general. Context: I'm one of the original leads on LXQt, and I initiated the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE-Qt into LXQt. I've been using LXQt as my main desktop for several years now. I've kept up with what other desktops have been doing. I've been especially impressed by the efforts of the GNOME team, and especially disappointed with the clus…

maybe focusing the generation perspective on the tech involved can help with moving this forward - as much as I'd like to contribute to a sane linux desktop in general (and LXQt is definetely the most promising one atm), theres no way I go back to write c++ based 'old school' UI-code anymore. I think for writing UIs you really want the flexibility of a declarative approach - haven't kept up with QML lately but v1 wasn't that great, same with gtk.Builder. people are not shipping a bloated copy of chromium in their apps without reason: we got so used to the power these monsters of layout engines offer, that people think its worth it! even though there still is no decent set of UI-widgets/components for the browser .. (something that can compete with QT or GTK with accessibility etc build in)

things are moving fast in the app-centric world right now, and while this has its downsides, it also populizes ideas that really do make things better - declarative layout, the functional (reactive) approach to ui-programming, using a network capable (rest-) interface between front- and backend and sane sandboxing. a desktop environment that offers a runtime for these kind of apps has the potential to bring back some developers to the linux desktop - KDE imho not only shines in regard to the Frameworks and KWin, their efforts in using QML as the basis for the whole desktop could lead to a more hackable experience for a new generation of developers in general.

bottom line: while electron really is an ugly hack atm, this approach to write cross desktop apps offers a developer experience that is superior in many ways and something that QT should really keep on moving forward: high quality ui-components and functional QML based frontend code combined with language agnostic backend code (c++ for resource heavy stuff, python et al for everything else)

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#27
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please explain what the state of KDE ? I always cheered for them, because I was a big fan of Qt

I'm being a bit unfair on KDE. Their efforts on Frameworks are excellent. Kwin especially is an amazing thing. But as a desktop , it's a disaster. Bloated, awful UX. Nearly every "core" app basically depends on the entire desktop, which makes them unusable outside of it. Bleh.

Correction: their efforts _used to be_ excellent, and I've been a big fan since KDE2. But lately, the whole plasma desktop feels like it will topple over and fall if I so much as look at it funny.

Random crashes of random "ksomething" components, announced with a cheerful dialog with a cute icon (I've had these crashes upon a first login of a newly created user, how low is that?), the little activity chooser widget expanding and collapsing itself in top-right corner over and over, audio devices appearing and disappearing semi-randomly whenever KDE tries to play one of its sound effects, Just a few days ago, after upgrade to latest plasma, all my systray icons are double in size, and thus no longer neatly in two rows. I'm not a half-blind grandpa, or a smartphone user, I don't need icons the size of my thumbs! The systray widget _is_ still able to display smaller icons, when I make the panel narrower, but the only way I can get two rows of icons anymore is to make it so wide that two rows of these large icons can fit.

Just yesterday, I tried creating a new user account with the intent of starting out with a fresh configuration and recreating my customizations, to get rid of old cruft (KDE doesn't seem to handle upgrades from previous versions very well, e.g. I lost the right-click menu on empty desktop somewhere around plasma 5.4). I got crash on first start, text in various systemsettings sections not redrawing properly when scrolling, "desktop settings" menu item always produces two (!) dialogs side by side, probably because I have two monitors active, KDE sometimes starting into a black screen with no controls visible... Not a very good first impression for a new user.

I'm now suffering KDE until I can get something else going and configured to my workflow. LXQt is something I'm looking at primarily, since I like the idea, and also like to write code for Qt. Hopefully I'll even be able to contribute eventually.

But yeah - KDE is circling the drain from a regular desktop user's point of view. Although it's still usable, it's the thousand little cuts that will get you.

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#28

Any of you use a lightweight desktop environment like on high end expensive system. Why? Does it matter if you end up using lightweight desktop environment on a low end system and end up using resource intensive apps on top of it?

Less space for the DE's configuration to get screwed up and start getting in your way.

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#29

So while this is on HN, I wanted to talk a bit about LXQt and desktop OSes in general. Context: I'm one of the original leads on LXQt, and I initiated the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE-Qt into LXQt. I've been using LXQt as my main desktop for several years now. I've kept up with what other desktops have been doing. I've been especially impressed by the efforts of the GNOME team, and especially disappointed with the clus…

The structure of Linux is really its worst enemy, having everything be a separate package results in a terrible end user experience, exacerbated by the developer fragmentation you mention. The only way to get a good looking and usable system is full top to bottom integration of the entire desktop environment. There are a few that try, but in the end you are running GTK and/or Qt, both of which are hideous and stick out like a sore thumb against anything well designed.

I tried damn near every combination of desktop environment and window manager on my RPi, hoping that someone had fixed this issue since the last time I tried running a Linux system. In the end I settled on LXQt as the best of the bunch, but it still isn't a good experience.

Re: LXQt 0.11 Released

#30

So while this is on HN, I wanted to talk a bit about LXQt and desktop OSes in general. Context: I'm one of the original leads on LXQt, and I initiated the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE-Qt into LXQt. I've been using LXQt as my main desktop for several years now. I've kept up with what other desktops have been doing. I've been especially impressed by the efforts of the GNOME team, and especially disappointed with the clus…

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