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How does Google know where I am?

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Re: How does Google know where I am?

#21

Post by anexprogrammer »

comboy wrote: post #17
pawadu wrote: post #5

This is not tower triangulation. Android searches for access points even when wifi is turned off. If anyone (with GPS enabled) uses that wifi with any google services the bssid will end up in their database. Also if the google car has been nearby it has recorded the presence of the wifi access point at that location [1]. Before you freak out: Apple and Microsoft also use access point information for positioning, alth…

Are you sure they do that when wifi is off? I was under the impression that it only happens when wifi is on (and it seems to me that my location on the map is more stable with wifi on). That would be very not ok if it would happen with wifi off. I turn my wifi off to save the battery, and it wouldn't do much if it was still looking for broadcasts.

There's another wifi setting, in advanced I think, for "scanning always available"

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#23

Post by nitrogen »

mikestew wrote: post #19
pawadu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises another imprtant question: Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? Who would really need that sort of information? I understand how this can be useful at the mall but I think I can find my way around my own house thank you.

Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a guess at the answer to another question: "is it okay for a private company to create a geodatabase of SSID strings that were freely and willingly broadcast via radio?" I think the answer is "yes". Ten, fifteen years ago, if there were an HN story about how I, ow…

I seriously doubt most people even know whst "broadcast" means, or that "their" wifi is not limited to their own four walls and personal use.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#24

Post by bhhaskin »

nitrogen wrote: post #23
mikestew wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a guess at the answer to another question: "is it okay for a private company to create a geodatabase of SSID strings that were freely and willingly broadcast via radio?" I think the answer is "yes". Ten, fifteen years ago, if there were an HN story about how I, ow…

I seriously doubt most people even know whst "broadcast" means, or that "their" wifi is not limited to their own four walls and personal use.

Not knowing how it works doesn't change the fact that broadcasting the SSID is a key part of how wifi works. The only real solution is not to use wifi if you don't want it to be mapped.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#25

Post by sly010 »

comboy wrote: post #17
pawadu wrote: post #5

This is not tower triangulation. Android searches for access points even when wifi is turned off. If anyone (with GPS enabled) uses that wifi with any google services the bssid will end up in their database. Also if the google car has been nearby it has recorded the presence of the wifi access point at that location [1]. Before you freak out: Apple and Microsoft also use access point information for positioning, alth…

Are you sure they do that when wifi is off? I was under the impression that it only happens when wifi is on (and it seems to me that my location on the map is more stable with wifi on). That would be very not ok if it would happen with wifi off. I turn my wifi off to save the battery, and it wouldn't do much if it was still looking for broadcasts.

Its a question of terminology. When you are passively listening to (periodic) SSID beacons, you are not transmitting anything, nor consuming any energy on your radio. One could do that even in airplane mode.

It's very different from when you hit "scan" and are actively sending broadcast packets on every frequency and waiting for the wifi routers to (actively) answer. Which really only happens when you pull down the list of nearby hotspots.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#26

Post by mikestew »

nitrogen wrote: post #23
mikestew wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a guess at the answer to another question: "is it okay for a private company to create a geodatabase of SSID strings that were freely and willingly broadcast via radio?" I think the answer is "yes". Ten, fifteen years ago, if there were an HN story about how I, ow…

I seriously doubt most people even know whst "broadcast" means, or that "their" wifi is not limited to their own four walls and personal use.

"Ignorance is no excuse"? I mean, I don't know what the solution is if that's an allowable excuse. Google has to run PSA's on how WiFi works before they're allowed to scoop up SSIDs?

Additionally, I don't buy that to begin with, at least not as it concerns the majority. Where do folks think those other SSIDs (even if they don't call them that) in their list of networks come from?

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#27

Post by gohrt »

jomamaxx wrote: post #22
wil421 wrote: post #13

If you want to stop your network from being scanned by Google street view or stop Microsoft doing whatever they do, you can add strings to your ssid. https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3g3xyu/for_wifi_ms... .

We should not have to do that.

Talk to your government, or organize a boycott threat.

Your house is also visible in Street View, for precisely the same reason: It transmits electromagnetic waves that are visible from public roads.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#28

Post by TeMPOraL »

nitrogen wrote: post #23
mikestew wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a guess at the answer to another question: "is it okay for a private company to create a geodatabase of SSID strings that were freely and willingly broadcast via radio?" I think the answer is "yes". Ten, fifteen years ago, if there were an HN story about how I, ow…

I seriously doubt most people even know whst "broadcast" means, or that "their" wifi is not limited to their own four walls and personal use.

Come on. There have to be some minimum standards of knowledge required for the citizens of a technological society, and I'd argue that "how radio works" is one of those things one should be expected to know.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#29

Post by ryanobjc »

jomamaxx wrote: post #22
wil421 wrote: post #13

If you want to stop your network from being scanned by Google street view or stop Microsoft doing whatever they do, you can add strings to your ssid. https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/3g3xyu/for_wifi_ms... .

We should not have to do that.

Your house broadcasts a beacon ID that ties to a specific place. It's very helpful for your neighbors to be able to locate themselves quickly.

Why aren't you helping your neighbors?

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