Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#21

Post by jaimex2 » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 4:06 AM UTC

TheShadowRunner wrote: post #18

jobu wrote: post #9

"It has long been Mobileye's position that Tesla's Autopilot should not be allowed to operate hands-free without proper and substantial technological restrictions and limitations," said the company's most recent statement, adding: "In communications dating back to May 2015 between Mobileye Chairman and Tesla's CEO, Mobileye expressed safety concerns regarding the use of Autopilot hands-free." That seems a bit damning…

/r/TeslaMotors dug up this video[1] of MobilEye CEO talking about the Autopilot, so if they really disagreed with the usage of Autopilot, shouldn't they have brought that up prior, and not included it in promotional material. From all indications on their end, I believe that they said that the Tesla Autopilot shouldn't be driven hands-free. I have no qualms with that, but why then use the Autopilot as a promotional f…

Oh wow, you can clearly see they were willing to go with it till there was an accident and they then immediately buckled under the first sign of trouble.

I can totally see why Tesla ditched them.

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#22

Post by 6nf » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 4:39 AM UTC

manyxcxi wrote: post #11

jobu wrote: post #9

"It has long been Mobileye's position that Tesla's Autopilot should not be allowed to operate hands-free without proper and substantial technological restrictions and limitations," said the company's most recent statement, adding: "In communications dating back to May 2015 between Mobileye Chairman and Tesla's CEO, Mobileye expressed safety concerns regarding the use of Autopilot hands-free." That seems a bit damning…

I'm no Luddite but I basically yelled at my business partner the other day when he took his hands off the wheel, eyes off the road, and was punching out an email as if we were on the train. I've done plenty of computer vision projects and pitched in on some autonomous driving/flying hobby projects- so I'm definitely willing to accept our robot driving overlords, but maybe I know just enough about it to know we're not…

There's not enough data yet to say for sure, but currently Tesla's autopilot record is one fatality per 70 million miles (assuming the recent Chinese death involved autopilot)

You can compare this to your local road stats. I don't think autopilot is there yet in terms of safety.

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#23

Post by bsaul » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 7:46 AM UTC

terravion wrote: post #5

RickS wrote: post #2

At the risk of fulfilling the "HN loves tesla" stereotype, I find it really difficult to take seriously an article that begins with a photo that was very clearly chosen to be unflattering, captioned "Overlord". That kind of flagrant skew poisons the credibility of everything else around it.

Also, what about more balanced and critical coverage of Mobile Eye and their previously fawning statements of how they loved working with such an aggressive customer like Tesla ...it somewhat undermines their position.

I haven't seen this statement, but i think everyone here would agree that it was a surprise to see tesla advertize autopilot, full hands off driving, while every other technology maker in the world were telling about technology not beeing fully mature yet.

I've seen a technology talk from mobile eye founder, and those guys look quite serious and down to earth. Very far from telsa's taste for shine and fame.

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#24

Post by DanBC » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 7:49 AM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #16

DiabloD3 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they are consistent, then.

Not only that, but a pleasantly bracing chaser for the sort of uncritical, even fawning, coverage that's so often lavished on the subjects of their articles. But there's no accounting for taste, of course.

The Register openly stated some time ago that they don't care about facts if they can cause a "good bun fight". I don't know if that's changed, but it's not a good source if you want civil and substantial discussion of a topic.

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#25

Post by arekkas » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 7:50 AM UTC

6nf wrote: post #22

manyxcxi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no Luddite but I basically yelled at my business partner the other day when he took his hands off the wheel, eyes off the road, and was punching out an email as if we were on the train. I've done plenty of computer vision projects and pitched in on some autonomous driving/flying hobby projects- so I'm definitely willing to accept our robot driving overlords, but maybe I know just enough about it to know we're not…

There's not enough data yet to say for sure, but currently Tesla's autopilot record is one fatality per 70 million miles (assuming the recent Chinese death involved autopilot) You can compare this to your local road stats. I don't think autopilot is there yet in terms of safety.

computing an avarage over one or two data points is questionable statistics

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#26

Post by bsaul » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 7:57 AM UTC

TheShadowRunner wrote: post #18

jobu wrote: post #9

"It has long been Mobileye's position that Tesla's Autopilot should not be allowed to operate hands-free without proper and substantial technological restrictions and limitations," said the company's most recent statement, adding: "In communications dating back to May 2015 between Mobileye Chairman and Tesla's CEO, Mobileye expressed safety concerns regarding the use of Autopilot hands-free." That seems a bit damning…

/r/TeslaMotors dug up this video[1] of MobilEye CEO talking about the Autopilot, so if they really disagreed with the usage of Autopilot, shouldn't they have brought that up prior, and not included it in promotional material. From all indications on their end, I believe that they said that the Tesla Autopilot shouldn't be driven hands-free. I have no qualms with that, but why then use the Autopilot as a promotional f…

Are you kidding ? His talk basically explain that we're not there yet ( at 2min "this is a challenge that remains to be solved")... It's not a marketing talk. It's a tech talk on the general issues faced before we can reach the goal of autonomous driving ( and how mobile eye can help, of course).

Also, in his conclusion (38min) : " you have to take this tools with a grain of salt, people tend to overreach..." He is talking about his own tools, the tools he presented. I can't see how someone can be more cautious and humble.

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#27

Post by majewsky » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 8:44 AM UTC

foofoo55 wrote: post #14

manyxcxi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no Luddite but I basically yelled at my business partner the other day when he took his hands off the wheel, eyes off the road, and was punching out an email as if we were on the train. I've done plenty of computer vision projects and pitched in on some autonomous driving/flying hobby projects- so I'm definitely willing to accept our robot driving overlords, but maybe I know just enough about it to know we're not…

Tesla could gets lots of quality data with the autopilot disengaged and running in a passive state such that the autopilot's calculations are compared to the human driver's actions. Any large variances (such as the autopilot wanting to suddenly veer left when the driver didn't) would be very valuable. I've done this with experimental machine control algorithms a number of times.

What makes you think they're not doing it?

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#28

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 9:40 AM UTC

arekkas wrote: post #25

6nf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not enough data yet to say for sure, but currently Tesla's autopilot record is one fatality per 70 million miles (assuming the recent Chinese death involved autopilot) You can compare this to your local road stats. I don't think autopilot is there yet in terms of safety.

computing an avarage over one or two data points is questionable statistics

[deleted]

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#29

Post by neximo64 » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 9:46 AM UTC

tbabb wrote: post #19

I do my best to mentally invert the Tesla/Musk hype, and my own affinity for what they do, but: 1) It doesn't seem like Tesla was dishonest about anything. 2) MobilEye seems to be very whiny/wimpy about getting a tiny, indirect fraction of the flak that Tesla has gotten for the crash. Seems like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline... applies.

What about the NY reporter who reviewed a Tesla, and when top gear reviews one? Was Tesla's response to each of those - were those dishonest?

Re: Is Tesla telling us the truth over autopilot spat?

#30

Post by throwanem » Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #24

throwanem wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but a pleasantly bracing chaser for the sort of uncritical, even fawning, coverage that's so often lavished on the subjects of their articles. But there's no accounting for taste, of course.

The Register openly stated some time ago that they don't care about facts if they can cause a "good bun fight". I don't know if that's changed, but it's not a good source if you want civil and substantial discussion of a topic.

Did they so state? The only reference I can find to the quoted phrase is in a reader comment from 2007. I'd be interested to see the statement to which you refer.

In general, it's very true that the Reg doesn't mind stirring up a bit of controversy here and there. (I'm pretty sure they're still permabanned from being credentialed to cover Apple events.) But that's not the same as saying they don't care about facts, or that they're more interested in controversy than in accurate coverage.