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Startup employees don't earn more

80000hours.org

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Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#21

Post by devonkim »

philsnow wrote: post #17

As others have posted, people don't go to small startups to earn more on average. They're not looking at the average or median, they're looking at the 99%ile numbers, because they think the startup they picked has an angle or advantage, giving it a shot at a 99%ile exit. 80000hours' audience is clever enough to understand cumulative distribution functions or even just correlated sets of [25%ile, median, 75%ile, 90%il…

I've always thought that historically engineers cared more about working on things they had more emotional investment in rather than working on things they had no passion for that makes money as an established business like ad tech or dog dating social networks.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#23

Post by arcticfox »

zachsnow wrote: post #12
rlanday wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, many people believe the value of money in non-linear but most of those people believe that the marginal utility of each additional dollars diminishes as your wealth increases, rather than increasing. I.e. even if you might earn more money on average at a startup (which the article claims isn’t the case), it still wouldn’t be worth it because it’s better to earn a decent salary from a big company with high probabi…

Interesting that while I agree that the marginal value decreases I also feel (literally feel ) that somehow having say an order of magnitude more would somehow be qualitatively different (and better). Funny to see my own biases play tricks (?) on me!

Unless you think that marginal value decreases at quite an exponential rate, an order of magnitude more would probably be noticeably better. That's a huge difference (e.g. the difference between minimum wage and well-to-do, between well-to-do and rich).

Until maybe ~$100M net worth, for me personally, I think an order of magnitude difference would indeed be qualitatively different / better.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#24

Post by bunkydoo »

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was all a façade, the next recession will really highlight the failures of silicon valley startup culture. Wall Street got pounded last time, and I'm sure I'll get downvoted night and day for saying this here - but I'm sorry guys, you are the new problem. Silicon Valley is the new Wall Street. There, I said it. Ironically I worked in both places before joining the postal service. So I do have perspective. My claims aren't baseless either, your startup that might even be funded at a million dollars like my employer's was is just a tax write-off for your investor when it fails. They are playing slots with your dreams, time, and skill - the only person who truly loses is you.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#25

Post by saryant »

bunkydoo wrote: post #24

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

I don't think a $1 million seed counts as "well-funded" and certainly isn't somewhere you expect large compensation. Startups pay below-market salary, especially at the seed stage. Maybe you have a big equity grant but that's not money in the bank.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#26

Post by saryant »

djloche wrote: post #18

It's easier to get hired at an early stage startup because there are fewer hoops to jump through. You can then use that startup to build industry connections and get your next job via inside track referral through someone you know at a bigger / more established company.

That's what I did. I was fresh out of a college nobody's heard of, joined a startup as their first employee and eventually networked my way into a big tech company.

Nearly doubled my salary when I eventually jumped.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#27

Post by telotortium »

adamzerner wrote: post #22

This talks about aggregate earning rather than earning per unit of time. I think the latter is what people are/should be interested in, and from what I understand, startup employees put in a lot more hours.

Well, it depends on what you're trying to achieve. There are legitimate reasons to try to achieve the highest possible pay per year, no matter how many hours in the year you have to work in order to get it. In the case of 80000 hours, the goal is to donate as much money to charity as possible, and, if I may put it somewhat crudely, they would prefer you work as much as possible, only stopping work in order to eat and sleep, if that's the way to achieve the highest salary, since the noblest calling in their view is to dump as much money as possible into (the most optimal) third world charities, and 80000 hours has already taken the time to determine which charities maximize third world utility. (Technically, you need to deduct the negative utility to you from working increased hours, but your utility should be the same as a poor person in the third world, so that negative effect is minimal.)

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#28

Post by jeremyt »

bunkydoo wrote: post #24

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

Just sour grapes.

You don't have any magical insight into the industry. You're just drawing conclusions from one data point.

Here are two more data points for you: I've worked at two startups and so far both startups are solid successes.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#29

Post by exstudent2 »

bunkydoo wrote: post #24

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

$1 million is practically nothing as far as startup funding goes. Especially in the Bay Area. That's basically a year to find product market fit and raise another round.

No offense but you don't sound like you have enough experience to be commenting on our industry as a whole.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#30

Post by bunkydoo »

exstudent2 wrote: post #29
bunkydoo wrote: post #24

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

$1 million is practically nothing as far as startup funding goes. Especially in the Bay Area. That's basically a year to find product market fit and raise another round. No offense but you don't sound like you have enough experience to be commenting on our industry as a whole.

$1 million dollars used to be enough to buy the American Dream and have enough left over to send little Timmy to college. How 'bout them apples?
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