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Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

kalzumeus.com

21–30 of 44 posts

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#21
post #12

Ugh this again. No. People have a first name, and they have a last name. Each name consists of a reasonable number of ascii characters. If they decide they are special and don't wish to conform to this scheme how is this my problem? What if I decide my "name" is the first billion digits of PI? Are you going to add that to the list of names that you need to support? No?

In the world the number of people whose names do not consist of ASCII characters only wastly outnumber those whose do.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#22
post #12

Ugh this again. No. People have a first name, and they have a last name. Each name consists of a reasonable number of ascii characters. If they decide they are special and don't wish to conform to this scheme how is this my problem? What if I decide my "name" is the first billion digits of PI? Are you going to add that to the list of names that you need to support? No?

I hope you are not downvoted. In economics, people talk about the problem of 'sorting and labeling' and how that is an unconscious reaction (which does unfortunately lead to bias) but it helps immensely in the overall productivity of an entire system. When people expect you to design special systems which increases the overall entropy, I wonder if they realize that you too incur a cost for creating that system. I say…

I hope he is downvoted for oblivion. And you too. That's a wrong approach to tacle (or rather not to tacle) a problem.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#23

I have a friend who's a refugee from Afghanistan. Apparently they don't use surnames there (or at least his tribe doesn't). When he applied for a visa my city council shifted his first name to his last name and he had to come up with a first name on the spot. His name is officially Peter Abdullah now.

At my uni there is a student (from India, IIRC) that doesn't have any surname.

Some of our software didn't like that, so we checked her passport, and sure enough, her full name was merely her first name.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#24
post #12

Ugh this again. No. People have a first name, and they have a last name. Each name consists of a reasonable number of ascii characters. If they decide they are special and don't wish to conform to this scheme how is this my problem? What if I decide my "name" is the first billion digits of PI? Are you going to add that to the list of names that you need to support? No?

In the world the number of people whose names do not consist of ASCII characters only wastly outnumber those whose do.

Interesting that you chose to respond only to the part of the commenters' statement where you had a reasoned response and ignored the second part of their statement altogether.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#25
post #4

I would functionally disagree with 40 - by the time someone is in a position to be referenced by a computer, they'll have some way of being referred to, even if it's just a number. It's hard to imagine a truly nameless slave that is kept off the grid, yet still has a computerised individual reference somewhere...

Ƭ̵̬̊ (The Artist Formerly Known As Prince)

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest solution is to have their address on file, and send them an actual letter to confirm the cancellation.

And if there are multiple tenants (e.g. roommates), who will it be addressed to? Just wondering if the issue is as simple as leaving the entire name field as a nullable string.

Your address entry needs to be flexible enough to accommodate pretty much arbitrary text. There are no universally required fields for addresses. Zip/postal codes are almost universal, but not entirely. E.g. "name; town; country" is sufficient some places; "name; postcode + town; country" is very common, but it can also go to the opposite extreme of a ridiculous number of separate items, so it's best to just give a number of lines and width that is constrained by your address labels, and let people figure out how best to address things to themselves.

If you need to make you address pretty much free form anyway, it makes practically no difference to ask people to put their address including name. If you ask for a name, the problem is that the name they may want you to use in other contexts is not necessarily the same name that people they live with will recognise them by.

E.g. consider a trans person that want you to know them as one gender, but isn't out to their family.

The safest in general is to not ask for "just" a name, but ask "what should we call you in context X?" but in many cases you can forgo the name by not synthesising data items (such as an address) from multiple parts, but letting users provide the whole thing as one entity (you can still pre-populate based on most common patterns), which as a bonus saves you from other stupid mistakes.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#27
post #12

Ugh this again. No. People have a first name, and they have a last name. Each name consists of a reasonable number of ascii characters. If they decide they are special and don't wish to conform to this scheme how is this my problem? What if I decide my "name" is the first billion digits of PI? Are you going to add that to the list of names that you need to support? No?

I hope you are not downvoted. In economics, people talk about the problem of 'sorting and labeling' and how that is an unconscious reaction (which does unfortunately lead to bias) but it helps immensely in the overall productivity of an entire system. When people expect you to design special systems which increases the overall entropy, I wonder if they realize that you too incur a cost for creating that system. I say…

If the argument is economics and system complexity you should favour a single name field over first and last name though. It's one of those rare occurrences where something is both simpler and the better option.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#28
post #12

Ugh this again. No. People have a first name, and they have a last name. Each name consists of a reasonable number of ascii characters. If they decide they are special and don't wish to conform to this scheme how is this my problem? What if I decide my "name" is the first billion digits of PI? Are you going to add that to the list of names that you need to support? No?

The list goes to far and makes people overreact like you with some kind of "Screw this! Get a normal name or get lost!".

That is the wrong way to handle this. You don't have to support everything in the list. If your product is only for people in America you can expect them to have a name written in latin letters. You can ask them for a surname and a given name, and they will be able to fill it in, but may be slightly annoyed. You should allow apostrophes and accented letters, but it's really not hard these days with UTF-8. ASCII is too limited.

As you support more countries you will need to support more kinds of names.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#29
post #12

Ugh this again. No. People have a first name, and they have a last name. Each name consists of a reasonable number of ascii characters. If they decide they are special and don't wish to conform to this scheme how is this my problem? What if I decide my "name" is the first billion digits of PI? Are you going to add that to the list of names that you need to support? No?

It don't think that'll be true in any first world country that has had any form of immigration. Storing a single UTF-8 value is simpler than storing two ASCII values in any case, pick the lazy option.

Re: Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names (2010)

#30

Similar lists: Falsehoods programmers believe about addresses: https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-a... Falsehoods programmers believe about time: http://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programm...

On time:

35. The rate that time passes at one point in the universe is the same relative to any other point in the universe.

I once talked to some co-workers of mine who doubted that relativity is real.

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