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The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

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21–30 of 174 posts

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to my friends and everything I've read on the subject, the cannon effect is achieved when you smoke DMT. Ayahuasca is DMT + MAOI inhibitors and is more like the usual experiences of orally ingesting LSD, psilocybin or mescaline.

Plus fantastically uncomfortable physical side effects, and on the positive side an experienced spotter to help you along.

Depends. If the MAOIs are extracted from the caapi, leaving out the other alkaloids, even the uncomfortable physical side effects can be avoided.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#22
post #3

The classical comparison that comes to mind is this: LSD is like walking through the doors of perception. DMT (as in ayahuasca) is like being shot out of a cannon. I wonder if it has dawned on any of these "shamans" that a fistful of risperidone might be useful for the freakouts? Antipsychotics exist for a reason. Also, anyone on MAOIs is likely to have a very bad time, and people on SSRIs may not notice a thing (oth…

Just curious - Why would someone on SSRIs not notice a thing? Forgive my ignorance but... Aren't those anxiolytic? Does that somehow prevent ayahuasca from functioning?

Most psychedelic drugs operate through the serotonin pathways. SSRIs cause downregulation of postsynaptic serotonin receptors, meaning the effects of things like LSD and MDMA are reduced.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#23

In years of observation, I have no doubt that if the compound has some interesting properties, it will be exploited, outcry / moralizing will ensue, and legislation will be passed to criminialise any use. All it really takes is one precious snowflake to do something hurtful to themselves or others to kick-off a motivated response. Well, at least computer duster inhalants are still widely available (/sarcasm).

>legislation will be passed to criminialise any use

DMT was banned ages ago.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like, certainly... but I'd say, on a radically different level. It's a very powerful thing, much more of a tool for personal discovery than anything remotely like a recreational or party drug. Source: first hand. :)

What did you discover?

Well, that's the trouble with "personal discovery" - it tends to be personal, and insights thus derived to lack general applicability.

Speaking for myself, on the rare occasions in my life when I've taken a psychedelic (LSD or psilocybin, never DMT as here), I've found the experience useful simply because such a radical change of perspective offers access to insight which might not be available in a more ordinary frame of mind. Such insight is, in my experience, occasionally of value. Of course, such insight is, also in my experience, much more often the kind of thing that makes sense only in hindsight and with the benefit of confirmation bias, which is to say, it doesn't make sense at all.

I think it's very easy for people to make too much of experiences like these; to be taken out of the world, as these substances do, can be wonderful or terrible or both at once, but I can't imagine a case in which it could be neither, and our culture doesn't really provide a good conceptual framework for dealing with wonder and terror. And I know with certainty that it's very easy to talk such an experience to death; in the case where it does offer beneficial insight, such insight is generally of such an intimately personal nature, and so inextricably bound up in one's unique and individual experience of reality, that to try to make it comprehensible to others is often to make it incomprehensible to oneself. At the very least, you want to let it settle a good long while, and integrate into your personality if it's going to do so, before you try to elucidate it to someone else - and, beyond that, there's a very solid point to be made that, if it really is going to change you, it'll do so in a way that doesn't need to be explained to anyone.

Whether any of what I've just described has any use to you, I have no idea, and this is the kind of question you could ask five people and get twelve answers in any case. But maybe it's been worth your while; in any case, I hope it has. I'm happy to answer any further questions it might elicit, although of course I can't promise those answers will be any more useful than this one has been.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#25
post #3

The classical comparison that comes to mind is this: LSD is like walking through the doors of perception. DMT (as in ayahuasca) is like being shot out of a cannon. I wonder if it has dawned on any of these "shamans" that a fistful of risperidone might be useful for the freakouts? Antipsychotics exist for a reason. Also, anyone on MAOIs is likely to have a very bad time, and people on SSRIs may not notice a thing (oth…

Just curious - Why would someone on SSRIs not notice a thing? Forgive my ignorance but... Aren't those anxiolytic? Does that somehow prevent ayahuasca from functioning?

Some folks have reported SSRIs dampen psychedelic trips. But maybe there's something more with the MAOIs in ayahuasca? Seems rather overhyped, with emphasis on "natural" and "discovered by ancients" nonsense. In reality MAOIs are rather dangerous.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#26
post #11
post #5

Has anyone here actually tried ayahuasca and can share their experience?

I have, not in Peru but at home. I've tried DMT roughly 300 times, pharmahuasca (N,N-DMT in an enteric capsule, inside a larger capsule of synthetic monoamine oxidase inhibitor) and ayahuasca, and the usual others (I've tried everything I could find from Pihkal and Tihkal). I eventually became too afraid of DMT (I had mistakenly bought 5-MeO-DMT and was using the same dosage and that wasn't pleasant, and now I'm too…

Have you ever just combined DMT and a MAOI to replicate the effects or is that not how it works?

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like, certainly... but I'd say, on a radically different level. It's a very powerful thing, much more of a tool for personal discovery than anything remotely like a recreational or party drug. Source: first hand. :)

What did you discover?

One of the people in the article discovered that, despite the miserable physical pain, afterwards all his childhood self-loathing and anger was gone.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#28
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, not in Peru but at home. I've tried DMT roughly 300 times, pharmahuasca (N,N-DMT in an enteric capsule, inside a larger capsule of synthetic monoamine oxidase inhibitor) and ayahuasca, and the usual others (I've tried everything I could find from Pihkal and Tihkal). I eventually became too afraid of DMT (I had mistakenly bought 5-MeO-DMT and was using the same dosage and that wasn't pleasant, and now I'm too…

Have you ever just combined DMT and a MAOI to replicate the effects or is that not how it works?

Yep, as mentioned, I twice had DMT (HCl) in an enteric capsule within a capsule of synthetic MAOI (Moclobemide) – it was a similar experience to Ayahuasca but there was much more of a mechanical feel to the CEVs, similar to the visuals produced by the Ketamine hole, there was also more anxiety, the plants combined with DMT in Ayahuasca are synergistic, the mechanical feeling could be a subjective effect in the brain caused by knowing the source of the material before consumption.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#30
post #11
post #5

Has anyone here actually tried ayahuasca and can share their experience?

I have, not in Peru but at home. I've tried DMT roughly 300 times, pharmahuasca (N,N-DMT in an enteric capsule, inside a larger capsule of synthetic monoamine oxidase inhibitor) and ayahuasca, and the usual others (I've tried everything I could find from Pihkal and Tihkal). I eventually became too afraid of DMT (I had mistakenly bought 5-MeO-DMT and was using the same dosage and that wasn't pleasant, and now I'm too…

You still think of it as "trying" after 300 doses?
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