'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#21

Post by cderwin » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 4:59 AM UTC

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #2

Meanwhile the Kochs have likely given around seven figures to ALEC[1], which has pushed aggressively for enhancing the laws[2] that Charles Koch is now, apparently, deeply opposed to. Maybe it's a turn of heart, but I'm rather skeptical. [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/alec-exposed-koch-connecti... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-pr...

It seems to me that they just found common ground, like Charles Koch and Mike Rowe have. ALEC produces models for a huge number of laws, the vast majority with which the Koch brothers are politically aligned. To me it doesn't seem to be a stretch that the people who founded the Cato Institute and bankrolled the Libertarian Party would agree with a conservative legislative group on a whole bunch of issues, but not on prison sentencing reform.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#22

Post by ebbv » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 4:59 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #7

ebbv wrote: post #5

This is a fluff piece trying to make an arch-conservative who is constantly pushing for deregulation and removal of environmental protections sound like a softy because he donated a bunch of money to Rowe's foundation. I have no doubt that the Koch brothers believe the agenda they push is for the best, but that's because they are self centered people. If you dig below the surface of any of the seemingly not self inte…

I'm a liberal, but does it occur to you that your perception of this may be majorly colored by your own bias? If you had read a similar piece with conservatives replaced by progressives, who would feature in it? George Soros? One can also say that your moral indignation is only surface-deep. For example: "The Koch brothers employ former convicts because they know they can pay them low wages and work then hard in thei…

Whoah buddy, I wasn't attacking you maybe you don't need to be so aggressive with me?

> First of all, they don't know when setting the initial salary who is a former convict and who isn't.

They don't have to know which individuals are. They put out there that they are willing/happy to hire ex-cons for these jobs and they will get them applying, and accepting lower salaries, lack of benefits, worse working conditions, no union, etc.

The whole "We don't ask people if they were convicted of a felony" is a total charade meant to seem like they are benevolent but in reality they know they are hiring convicts. Which people should do, but they take advantage of it.

> And secondly, what exactly are you proposing would be better for the former convicts than this?

First off, the idea that I'm under some onus to offer a better solution when I call something out as terrible is ridiculous. I don't have to make you a three michelin star meal to tell you Applebee's isn't very good.

Secondly, it's simple and obvious what I'm advocating in my original comment; paying people fair wages and providing them good working conditions and benefits and not taking advantage of their circumstance. Seems reasonable to me?

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#23

Post by hnpuff » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:00 AM UTC

This is a paid endorsement for the Koch Brothers. Am I missing something here?

Mike Rowe talks about how the Koch brothers financially support his activities, and oh yeah, of course they are great people.

How is this being taken seriously on Hacker News?

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#24

Post by ebbv » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:01 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8

ebbv wrote: post #5

This is a fluff piece trying to make an arch-conservative who is constantly pushing for deregulation and removal of environmental protections sound like a softy because he donated a bunch of money to Rowe's foundation. I have no doubt that the Koch brothers believe the agenda they push is for the best, but that's because they are self centered people. If you dig below the surface of any of the seemingly not self inte…

Everybody believes what they push for is for the best. You believe what you're pushing for is for the best too! That's what people do. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if the Koch brothers are evil incarnate or not, if Mike Rowe got them to dump a big pile of money into a good cause. You can both keep your opinion of the Koch brothers, without lowering your opinion of Mike Rowe. Because all he did…

I made the point you made in my comment and then addressed why I think it's not good enough, so I'm not sure what your point is in rehashing it?

As far as why I think badly of Mr. Rowe, it's not because he took a donation from Charles Koch but that he's actually written a fluff piece about Charles Koch here. If he said "Hey the guy pushes some terrible stuff, but I took his money and put it to good use." I'd say fair enough. But he's saying "Hey Charles Koch isn't a bad guy." which is baloney.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#25

Post by toodlebunions » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:02 AM UTC

Why is this on Hacker News?

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#26

Post by cperciva » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:02 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #9

This is a great little piece, and I'm glad I saw it, and I wouldn't have seen it at all had it not been at the top of HN (despite the fact that most of what Mike Rowe writes somehow lands in my Fb feed), and I even agree with I think something like 98% of what it says. But it still feels like an almost textbook example of what shouldn't be on the front page of HN. Something Mike Rowe writes about the importance of th…

As a non-American, I found this interesting. Pretty much the only thing I hear about the Kochs here in Canada is "evil oil tycoons".

And I think the underlying message of "your opponents aren't literally devils incarnate" could do with being repeated a bit more often -- not just here but in every online forum.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#27

Post by daeken » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:04 AM UTC

toodlebunions wrote: post #25

Why is this on Hacker News?

From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting.

And

> Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think a story is spam or off-topic, flag it by clicking on its 'flag' link.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#28

Post by tsomctl » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:04 AM UTC

"But I was most surprised by his commitment to reinvigorate the skilled trades."

Why is he surprised? Koch Industries relies extensively on skilled laborers. Wikipedia lists Koch Industries' produces as "Asphalt, chemicals, commodities trading, energy, fibers, fertilizers, finance, minerals, natural gas, plastics, petroleum, pulp and paper, ranching". With the exception of commodities trading and finance, all of these require fabricators, electricians, pipe fitters, millwrights, machinists, heavy equipment operator, and a whole bunch of other trades. Even if they have enough employees, having more people trained in these trades allows them to hire better employees. From a more pessimistic point of view, having allows them to pay workers less.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#29

Post by cperciva » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:05 AM UTC

ebbv wrote: post #24

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody believes what they push for is for the best. You believe what you're pushing for is for the best too! That's what people do. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if the Koch brothers are evil incarnate or not, if Mike Rowe got them to dump a big pile of money into a good cause. You can both keep your opinion of the Koch brothers, without lowering your opinion of Mike Rowe. Because all he did…

I made the point you made in my comment and then addressed why I think it's not good enough, so I'm not sure what your point is in rehashing it? As far as why I think badly of Mr. Rowe, it's not because he took a donation from Charles Koch but that he's actually written a fluff piece about Charles Koch here. If he said "Hey the guy pushes some terrible stuff, but I took his money and put it to good use." I'd say fair…

It's possible that this was a well-crafted fluff piece, but it seems far more likely that Mike Rowe is being honest and he wrote it in response to the vitriolic messages he received.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#30

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Sep 05, 2016, 5:05 AM UTC

ebbv wrote: post #24

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody believes what they push for is for the best. You believe what you're pushing for is for the best too! That's what people do. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if the Koch brothers are evil incarnate or not, if Mike Rowe got them to dump a big pile of money into a good cause. You can both keep your opinion of the Koch brothers, without lowering your opinion of Mike Rowe. Because all he did…

I made the point you made in my comment and then addressed why I think it's not good enough, so I'm not sure what your point is in rehashing it? As far as why I think badly of Mr. Rowe, it's not because he took a donation from Charles Koch but that he's actually written a fluff piece about Charles Koch here. If he said "Hey the guy pushes some terrible stuff, but I took his money and put it to good use." I'd say fair…

I didn't get the impression so much that "Mike Rowe thinks Charles Koch is all around swell", but more "Mike Rowe found some points of commonality with Charles Koch and is perfectly fine working with him on those common goals". And of course, it seems he got pelted at with enough messages about how horrible he is for associating with Koch, that he clearly saw fit to explain.