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Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

juliareda.eu

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Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#21

Post by dbmikus »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #17

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct? https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

I'm not too familiar with the issue, but the idea would be that a free and competitive market for telcos would allow consumers to use the internet service that best hits their needs. If net neutrality is important enough, someone would make a telco company that is "net neutral" and customers would pay for that service over others.

The general idea is that a free market is more flexible and quicker to react than the government. It would be quicker to shape itself to the demands of the consumers. This could cover issues like net neutrality, antiquated infrastructure not being upgraded, etc. Prices would also probably go down.

I think this is an important issue alongside net neutrality. I also believe that some extra government regulation is necessary for utilities and essential services, so I'm not against government interference.

In general, the consumer benefits most when an industry has a lot of competition in it.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#22

Post by narrator »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #17

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct? https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

The key point about net neutrality is that it prevents the telco monopoly from becoming a key gatekeeper in deciding who gets to do what and how fast on the Internet. If they become that gatekeeper, all the consumer and producer surplus in mutually beneficial transactions between websites and consumers can be siphoned off by the telcos without adding any value. Just adding more telcos to the mix spreads the siphoning around, but still sucks the profits out of the websites who would otherwise be more likely to reinvest to produce better services.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#23

Post by speg »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #7
nothis wrote: post #3

Disappointingly little concrete information of what's in now, anyone knows how to read these things and skimmed the original text? I heard that EU "net neutrality" is disappointlngly vague. I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify, which, in my understanding, is exactly what net neutrality should prevent.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

Happening in Canada too:

http://www.videotron.com/unlimitedmusic

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#24

Post by K0nserv »

swinglock wrote: post #13
k-mcgrady wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "I see providers offering free data for things like Spotify" Any source for this? I've only ever seen providers offer free Spotify membership, not free data. Edit: Thanks for the responses. I had no idea this was happening.

Swedens I believe largest operators 3 and Telia has unlimited or a large amount of data that doesn't count towards the usual data limits when using specially selected services such as Spotify and Facebook.

Telia also attached a condition that you had to promise to be nice on the internet and not practice "näthat"(net hate). Not joking either, they were then very unresponsive to criticism and questioning of their stance on net neutrality.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#25

Post by jomamaxx »

kartan wrote: post #18
thr0waway1239 wrote: post #17

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct? https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

The argument doesn't makes sense. When a normal citizen is choosing her internet provider they are not going to expend a lot of time looking at the implications of their decision. If the services is cheap enough and has the thing that they usually use then they are done. Competition can easy bring cheaper services but hardly can bring improving in long term needs. That's why we have laws that forbid companies to poll…

"The argument doesn't makes sense. When a normal citizen is choosing her internet provider they are not going to expend a lot of time looking at the implications of their decision."

I think you're missing the implication of the point.

If there is 'a lot of competition' - it makes cartel-like or colluding behaviour among carriers difficult, thereby facilitating de-facto net-neutrality.

Customers don't have to be aware of it.

And it's a reasonable argument: ensuring healthy and fair competition is almost always better than legislative controls, usually because regulations are often poorly conceived and effectuated, or at least, the market changes rapidly and the regulations fail to adapt.

I think that a reasonable net-neutrality law should probably be made both in Europe and in the US, that said, I'm weary of it being too onerous.

My position is also pragmatic: 'more competition' is unlikely in an industry with such massive barriers to entry etc..

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#26

Post by tajen »

Next fight : That ISPs advertise the minimum guaranteed bandwidth and are banned from advertising the maximum theoretical number.

Then only we could measure that they do offer the same bandwidth with Netflix and Vimeo as they advertise. Net neutrality at its best.

Edit: Of course the number will be very low because they have to (God forbid!) provision their network to serve this bandwidth to all customers during peak hours. But what we're looking for is not a huge number - we're looking for a number that allows meaningful comparison with competitors.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#28

Post by restalis »

dbmikus wrote: post #21
thr0waway1239 wrote: post #17

I once heard an interview with the Economist digital editor Tom Standage where he claims (at 5:45 into the interview) that net neutrality is the wrong thing to focus on, and the important thing is just making sure there is more competition between the telcos. Can someone more familiar with this issue tell me if this argument is correct? https://www.podcat.com/podcasts/i63zqo-untether-tv-mobile-st...

I'm not too familiar with the issue, but the idea would be that a free and competitive market for telcos would allow consumers to use the internet service that best hits their needs. If net neutrality is important enough, someone would make a telco company that is "net neutral" and customers would pay for that service over others. The general idea is that a free market is more flexible and quicker to react than the g…

The market has to be protected. The equilibrium has to be taken care of and sought after, otherwise there is an inherent risk that it'll arise only after hostile actions and a great deal of collateral damage. The regulation inhere is for limiting the collateral damage that competing players could inflict upon consumers.

Re: Victory for Net Neutrality in Europe

#30

Post by headmelted »

It encourages me to see that the European court at least has some people on it that seem to understand that net neutrality is in fact a human rights issue.

And this is why Brexit is so heart-breaking. I'm surrounded by people in my personal life who think it's a fantastic idea, but they're not the most... informed? Likewise for local politicians.

(Side note to my rant: I have this theory that the rise of the iPhone, and the fact that it is such a big part of people's lives now, has fooled regular folks into believing that they're experts on technology. I have no more than anecdotal evidence for this).

I strongly suspect that local legislators will see no conflict whatsoever with scrapping these laws when the exit finally comes, and it saddens me that I'm surrounded by a lot of people that will be cheering when it happens.

This is from a real conversation I had this week:

"What it boils down to is do you want to have us control our own laws and decisions and borders, or have to take orders from some bureaucrat in Brussels that doesn't understand us?"

Yes, I would rather have decisions made by people in Brussels that understand what they're doing.

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