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A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

electrek.co

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Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#21

Post by wildmusings »

xxpor wrote: post #20
wildmusings wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about nuclear power? It's the most viable energy source that we have. It doesn't emit carbon. It could power the world. Funny that the people who get labeled "climate deniers" are also the most pro-nuclear, while the loud environmentalists are the most anti-nuclear. I frankly don't give a damn what they believe or don't believe, if they're going to solve the problem anyway.

Putting a nuclear reactor in every car and truck sounds like a great idea!

1. If fossil fuel use is reduced to cars/trucks, the problem is largely solved. In the US, only 26% of emissions come from transportation.[1]

2. Electric cars will make this irrelevant, since they'll draw their power from the grid. In the meantime, ICEs/hybrids are becoming increasingly efficient.

[1] https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis...

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#22

Post by VLM »

robertcope wrote: post #13
strommen wrote: post #12

Exxon is probably pushing this because it will help their business. The #1 "victim" of a carbon tax is coal, which accounts for about 30% of our energy production. A carbon tax will redistribute this production to other sources, mainly natural gas (which emits 42% less carbon). Exxon does a lot of natural gas extraction, and virtually nothing with coal. Exxon is also working on carbon sequestration technology. Which…

27 cents a gallon is quite a lot.

And that will just be the start.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#23

Post by hyperbovine »

robertcope wrote: post #13
strommen wrote: post #12

Exxon is probably pushing this because it will help their business. The #1 "victim" of a carbon tax is coal, which accounts for about 30% of our energy production. A carbon tax will redistribute this production to other sources, mainly natural gas (which emits 42% less carbon). Exxon does a lot of natural gas extraction, and virtually nothing with coal. Exxon is also working on carbon sequestration technology. Which…

27 cents a gallon is quite a lot.

Compared to inundating Manhattan? Perspective.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#24

Post by talmand »

k26dr wrote: post #18
strommen wrote: post #12

Exxon is probably pushing this because it will help their business. The #1 "victim" of a carbon tax is coal, which accounts for about 30% of our energy production. A carbon tax will redistribute this production to other sources, mainly natural gas (which emits 42% less carbon). Exxon does a lot of natural gas extraction, and virtually nothing with coal. Exxon is also working on carbon sequestration technology. Which…

I'm fine with Exxon benefitting from a carbon tax. They have the political clout to push a bill like this through Congress, and it benefits the country as a whole to have carbon legislation in place. Seems like a win-win to me.

If a corporation, especially a multi-national, benefits from a tax, I would question the benefit to society from that tax.

Not to say that society would not benefit, but it does make me wonder.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#25

Post by ocschwar »

IsaacL wrote: post #5
DiabloD3 wrote: post #2

From what I can tell, this is a political maneuvering by the oil industry to not be nailed to the cross like the tobacco industry did: knowingly selling a highly toxic product that is conclusively linked to many disorders including cancer, and covering it up or minimizing it in the media for decades to continue profiting. Unfortunately, it's not going to work, and they will be ran out of business through the politica…

Unfortunately, it's not going to work, and they will be ran out of business through the political will of the people, just as the tobacco industry is now having done to it. Cool, and what's your proposal for an alternative energy source to power modern civilisation? https://www.scribd.com/document/320110894/Alex-Epstein-Moral...

"Cool, and what's your proposal for an alternative energy source to power modern civilisation?"

We have several alternatives.

The only problem they have is that most of them are difficult to store in a self-contained moving vehicle that turns rubber wheels to move on flat blacktop.

So, we increase reliance on vehicles that turn steel wheels on steel tracks, and get their power from overhead wires.

Next question?

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#26

Post by VLM »

CalRobert wrote: post #6
DiabloD3 wrote: post #2

From what I can tell, this is a political maneuvering by the oil industry to not be nailed to the cross like the tobacco industry did: knowingly selling a highly toxic product that is conclusively linked to many disorders including cancer, and covering it up or minimizing it in the media for decades to continue profiting. Unfortunately, it's not going to work, and they will be ran out of business through the politica…

"and you're not cool if you don't drive a Tesla" Woe to the bicycle commuter, I suppose. Also, I think you forget there are huge chunks of the world where this is utterly untrue.

> bicycle commuter

And I propose the e-bicycle conversion kits, generally for the price of a commuter class cheap bike the cost per watt of motor and cost per KWh lithium battery has been dropping by half every couple years. Today in 2016 you're looking at about two watts of motor power per dollar (so $500 kit would get you more than a horsepower, and riding on horseback seems adequately fast) and about $30 per mile of battery range so $500 of lithium ion should get me around 15 miles on a charge (depends a lot on speed, hills, how much you pedal, etc)

Of course the government is getting in the way with all kinds of regulation and outright banning in some more backwards cities (NYC, etc). But I don't live in a backwards city so no problemo.

Until 2016 I'm not going to ride a bike to work because I'll be all sweaty during the roughly two months per year the weather is good enough to ride a bike. However my son is very interested in the mechanical work of assembling an ebike conversion, and it sounds like a fun teen boy and dad project to work on together, so in 2017 I could slowly ride an ebike to work mostly sweatless. Its an interesting technological development. I have not gone beyond a couple hours of online research on this project, but I'm figuring for a couple grand, which isn't much, we can build matching ebikes.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#27

Post by chadgeidel »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #11
DiabloD3 wrote: post #2

From what I can tell, this is a political maneuvering by the oil industry to not be nailed to the cross like the tobacco industry did: knowingly selling a highly toxic product that is conclusively linked to many disorders including cancer, and covering it up or minimizing it in the media for decades to continue profiting. Unfortunately, it's not going to work, and they will be ran out of business through the politica…

People who compare oil and tobacco ignore the benefits side. For tobacco, the positive benefits are very small. The oil industry on the other hand powers our entire modern way of life. * Ever fly in an airplane - thank oil * Ever ride in a car or bus - thank oil * Live in a cold climate and heat your home in winter - thank oil * Ever use plastics - thank oil * Ever buy something on Amazon and had it shipped to you -…

Oil is in everything. Transportation of course, but it's in our clothes, our houses, computers, our food (fertilizer for example), etc. It's very difficult to point to something that oil ISN'T in (here in the US). I'm sure I'll get responses which do.

NPR Planet Money recently did a series of podcasts about oil - it was pretty good. #4 was the episode where they talked a bit about what oil goes into: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/08/19/490408060/oil-4...

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#29

Post by 4ad »

ocschwar wrote: post #25
IsaacL wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's not going to work, and they will be ran out of business through the political will of the people, just as the tobacco industry is now having done to it. Cool, and what's your proposal for an alternative energy source to power modern civilisation? https://www.scribd.com/document/320110894/Alex-Epstein-Moral...

"Cool, and what's your proposal for an alternative energy source to power modern civilisation?" We have several alternatives. The only problem they have is that most of them are difficult to store in a self-contained moving vehicle that turns rubber wheels to move on flat blacktop. So, we increase reliance on vehicles that turn steel wheels on steel tracks, and get their power from overhead wires. Next question?

Most of the electrical energy comes from burning things that create carbon-dioxide as a side product. The only real alternative is fission, and the public opinion against nuclear is even worse than against oil. How do you solve this problem?

Getting people and things moved by train is a great idea, but in the grand scheme of things we're dependant on oil for so many other things.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#30

Post by astrodust »

robertcope wrote: post #13
strommen wrote: post #12

Exxon is probably pushing this because it will help their business. The #1 "victim" of a carbon tax is coal, which accounts for about 30% of our energy production. A carbon tax will redistribute this production to other sources, mainly natural gas (which emits 42% less carbon). Exxon does a lot of natural gas extraction, and virtually nothing with coal. Exxon is also working on carbon sequestration technology. Which…

27 cents a gallon is quite a lot.

No it isn't. US gas prices are comically low compared to virtually every other country on the planet. The exceptions are countries with stupidly low gas prices like Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. If this tax was applied it wouldn't push America into European levels of pricing. It wouldn't even nudge it into Canadian pricing levels.
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