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Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

reuters.com

21–30 of 50 posts

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#21
post #5

How to make a headline from boring stuff...: "oblige" and "required" are pretty strong words for what can't be more than a recommendation. ("Die Bevölkerung wird angehalten , einen individuellen Vorrat [...]" is the German quote, which I'd maybe translate as "the public is asked to ") Also, as far as I can tell from the news reports, the report and it's recommendations are about general disaster preparedness, not ter…

Those are indeed strong words. Governments in Europe have considerably more power than in the new world. They can do these things - they view statehood as literally the community. Sometimes that has advantages, sometimes not.

Even scarier, is the fact that this is even being done.

Since there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster (Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to a terrorist threat.

Over 1.5 million people flooded into Germany. 1 million official. Of those, only 1/4 were 'refugees' - i.e. displaced people from Syria and Iraq. The remainder were young men from Algeria, Morocco, Pakistan, Tunisia, Egypt seeking a better life.

Of course, I don't blame anyone for seeking a better life, but arbitrary infusion of 100's of thousands of people into farily ethnically homogenous state that already has problems with integration re: Turks, who stand out strongly among other immigrants in terms of their non-integration - is crazy.

'Bleeding hearts' need to be met with 'responsible, pragmatic minds'.

Yes - we need to help refugees. Of course. But we have to be responsible about it.

Angela Merkels unilateral and now unpopular policy of just opening the doors is absurd. She later said she was 'surprised' that so many 'non refugees' would decide to come - which illustrates how astonishingly politicos are out of touch with human nature.

The moment she opened the gates, I assumed the outcome - millions would try to come, by hook or by crook.

Canada and USA are shielded by oceans - but they and the UK have the right approach - they take a specific number from UN camps - such refugees are well vetted, they are credibly refugees and not terrorists, families instead of just young men, and it happens at a controlled pace.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#22
I really despise this new news cycle, where random conspiracy blogs stumble upon a rudimentary and minor policy change, take it out of context, put their alarmist, sensationalist spin on it, spread it through their blog networks and facebook groups and make it appear like legitimate news. Always under the pretense that they want to educate citizens when all they really care about is advertising money. And 24 hours later the whole ruckus is forgotten and a new piece of information is taken out of context. Most people develop good filters with regard to such news while others don't and then feel like the world might come to an end any second.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#23
post #4

There's an insane amount of shipping going on right now and I seriously can't imagine terrorists can disrupt those supply chains. We'll just reroute around them - there is plenty of duplicate shipping channels in the world. If terrorists can get us to slide to the assumption of attacks instead of realizing shit happens and we're trying to fix it...well, they've already won.

A dirty bomb or gas attack would make it very difficult to get supplies to the right place.

If you are 'near' an attack zone, and stay inside your house, you may be able to safeguard yourself from most of the radiation or gas or whatever. But the area may be too unsafe for other people to regularly travel to, in which case water/food will be a problem.

It may take a few days for the gov. to get people geared up to travel in 'somewhat dangerous zones' around the attack with food/water etc..

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#24
post #4

There's an insane amount of shipping going on right now and I seriously can't imagine terrorists can disrupt those supply chains. We'll just reroute around them - there is plenty of duplicate shipping channels in the world. If terrorists can get us to slide to the assumption of attacks instead of realizing shit happens and we're trying to fix it...well, they've already won.

> there is plenty of duplicate shipping channels in the world

But there are choke points, too. For example, the Strait of Malacca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Malacca), the relatively narrow passage that connects the Indian Ocean to the Pacific. Something like 25% of the entire world's shipped goods pass through the Strait; and it's especially important for China, as nearly all of the imported oil that keeps her industrial machine running is shipped to them from the Middle East via that route.

A terrorist attack on the Strait isn't inconceivable, either. Al Qaeda experimented with attacks on ships in the years before 9/11, culminating in the attacks on the USS Cole in 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing) and the oil tanker MV Limburg in 2002 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Jewel#Bombing). This line of effort petered out following the capture of the "terrorist entrepreneur" who had driven it, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahim_al-Nashiri), but that doesn't mean some other ambitious fellow won't pick it up again in the future.

None of which is to say that the sky is falling and people (in Germany or elsewhere) need to start stockpiling water and digging their Apocalypse Bunkers, of course. It's just worth noting that the space through which goods can be shipped is narrower than most people may realize.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#25
There are elections in two states and federal elections coming up in 2017. Security and refugees are the main topics. The governing parties are trying to sound hard to stop the rise of the populist AFD by adjusting to the right. Especially the CSU, which since the beginning of time governs Bavaria (where the attacks happended) and traditionally was the rightmost not yet extremist party, tries to compete with populism. Claims to forbid burkas and stuff like that have been made.

When the Munich shooting happened the whole city was locked down, the minister of defence unilaterally set military troops on call who for obvious historic reasons are only allowed to act inside Germany if the alternative would literally be "no Germany left", so she got bashed for that, police forces from neighbouring German states were called to Munich, the federal special unit GSG9 came, and even Austrian Cobra forces came to help.

As bad as this sounds: This was only a mass shooting from a crazy person and while there was misinformation and panic spreading, after the initial catastrophe the situation was immediately under control. The shooter is dead, the guy who sold him the weapon got caught.

There is really no reason to panic here, to bully muslims or let alone allow the military to act inside the borders. Not having soldiers on the streets (or police who act like soldiers for that matter) is a privilege we should not give up so easily.

And I don't think it is reasonable to expect any terrorist group to be able to keep me locked inside my home for 5 days, when authorities here are already calling foreign forces and keep the military on call, as soon as a teenager with a Glock goes crazy.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#26
post #5

How to make a headline from boring stuff...: "oblige" and "required" are pretty strong words for what can't be more than a recommendation. ("Die Bevölkerung wird angehalten , einen individuellen Vorrat [...]" is the German quote, which I'd maybe translate as "the public is asked to ") Also, as far as I can tell from the news reports, the report and it's recommendations are about general disaster preparedness, not ter…

Those are indeed strong words. Governments in Europe have considerably more power than in the new world. They can do these things - they view statehood as literally the community. Sometimes that has advantages, sometimes not. Even scarier, is the fact that this is even being done. Since there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster (Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to…

Germany does have floods regularly.

ie. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36429381

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#27

German speaking here. It's important to know that there are regional (Landtag) elections coming up, and the right-wing AfD tries to paint current politicians as a bunch of incompetent people incapable of providing security for the German people - and the established politicians react with populist stuff like this and the idea of forbidding double citizenship and Niqabs. Everything that sounds like populist bullsh*t c…

By 'populism' you mean 'people speaking their minds'? And that they should be ignored?

By 'populism' do you mean the vast majority of Europeans and clear majority of Germans who are not supportive of the 'open doors' immigration policy?

Especially those made by diktat - without popular consultation, without legal consideration, without a vote in parliament - which affects the entirety of Europe?

Maybe Germans can have their 'leaders' stop forcing policy on the rest of Europe?

And by the way - your argument does not work in your favour: it is not the AfD telling people to prepare - it's the actual government wherein there is no AfD people to make such claims.

The very fact that the government - weary of people acting out against Muslims - is willing to make this statement says a lot about the actual threat environment.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#28
post #5

How to make a headline from boring stuff...: "oblige" and "required" are pretty strong words for what can't be more than a recommendation. ("Die Bevölkerung wird angehalten , einen individuellen Vorrat [...]" is the German quote, which I'd maybe translate as "the public is asked to ") Also, as far as I can tell from the news reports, the report and it's recommendations are about general disaster preparedness, not ter…

Those are indeed strong words. Governments in Europe have considerably more power than in the new world. They can do these things - they view statehood as literally the community. Sometimes that has advantages, sometimes not. Even scarier, is the fact that this is even being done. Since there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster (Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to…

0 chance of floods, really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_European_floods

And do you have a source for your claim that only 1/4 of recent asylum seekers were refugees?

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#29
post #11

I never thought about it before but now I wonder if I should have a small stock just in case. Nothing serious, maybe 2 weeks worth of stuff to live on. That I can have and forget, not maintain indefinately. Anyone have something like that? Any tips?

Speaking as someone who cooks, a typical pantry should last you at least 2 weeks if you just wanted to survive. Flour, pasta, rice, eggs, various preserved meats and vegetables. Anything you have that is perishable could probably be immediately preserved and will easily last 2 weeks.

If there was really a problem, my main concerns would be water and power.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#30
post #20
post #11

I never thought about it before but now I wonder if I should have a small stock just in case. Nothing serious, maybe 2 weeks worth of stuff to live on. That I can have and forget, not maintain indefinately. Anyone have something like that? Any tips?

Well, food is easy enough - canned food doesn't take up much space and is easy to keep stocked, assuming you regularly rotate through it so that it doesn't expire. The harder part is water, as just a few days worth of drinking water for one person can take up a huge amount of space.

The harder part is water, as just a few days worth of drinking water for one person can take up a huge amount of space.

Eh??? A generally "comfortable" minimal budget for water is 1 gallon per day (3.8 liters, call it 4), although you might need more on hot summer days. A 5 gallon container is, with all the plastic and features for stack-ability, going to take up less than a cubic foot (19,000 cc).

It's not compact like food, but it's pretty easy to store enough so that you can ride out a short disaster and pick your time to get more for a longer one.

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