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Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

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Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#21
post #14
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I wrote is a factual observation, not a value judgement. So it makes sense whether one believes that "only music that makes money matters" or not. (And I don't believe that at all)

I think you guys are missing my point, which is my fault. Making art for the money should never be a primary goal, unless one's goal is the emphasis and irony of that relationship (see: Koons). Otherwise, how can it really be art? It's been constrained and affected by the expected effect. However, there's a huge difference between self-labeling one's art in a way that obscures it from wide access (like labeling a mus…

Jazz has always been a progressive, innovative musical form. If you understand jazz to be static and backwards-facing, then you have been sadly misled. Jazz has a tradition, but that tradition is a starting point rather than a destination. Jazz musicians stand on the shoulders of giants, not in their shadows.

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#22
Many developments in jazz of the 60s and 70s are just starting to become normalized and institutionalized in the 21st century. Check out the history of the AACM and Art Ensemble of Chicago for one important example:

http://www.npr.org/books/titles/138018824/a-power-stronger-t...

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#23
post #15
post #5

I clearly know nothing about music, but why does it even have to be called 'Jazz'? Given those market numbers cited, it seems like it would be a very bad brand to be associated with your music. Having a son who's 12, and having recently had a bunch of pre-teens running around my house all going through the timeless ritual of identity crafting, I have gotten to listen to their music, watch their media, and hear their…

> Yet, for some reason, they spend their time playing Jazz derivatives and covers or as studio musicians. Because that's the kind of music they like to play and know best. If they went to music school, jazz and classical are the dominant music styles that are taught. Also, you can make a pretty good living as a studio musician. It's much less risky than trying to sell your own albums as a solo artist. > Interestingly…

dead on. for more examples of what goes by "jazz" these days:

Takuya Kuroda - Rising Son : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mUymaxWmMw

Hiatus Kaiyote - The World It Softly Lulls : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqzFgkkQXWw

Kamasi Washington - Changing of the Guard : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtQRBzSN9Vw

Snarky Puppy - Don't You Know : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqY3FaZmh-Y

Thundercat - Them Changes : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNCd_ERZvZM

Jordan Rakei - Talk to Me : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkvdRNi7qQE

Flying Lotus - MmmHmm : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uCyv05SG1g

None of these tunes could have been made any time before 2010, and all are clearly jazz (or at least heavily inspired by Jazz). With R&B, (Neo-)Soul, and other jazz forms re-emerging in pop music, Jazz remains the source of much of modern musical innovation.

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does it even have to be called 'Jazz'? * http://www.apassion4jazz.net/etymology.html * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_(word)#Etymology > But, if I went to a music venue today, and the band was playing Jazz, I'd be bored out of my mind. Jazz has many flavours that have long walked hand-in-hand with social dancing. Maybe spend a bit more time exploring its depth? Here's a modern rendition of a timeless classi…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF6SGWRMIYw

Handel's just boring. https://youtu.be/g65oWFMSoK0?t=8m11s

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#25
post #5

I clearly know nothing about music, but why does it even have to be called 'Jazz'? Given those market numbers cited, it seems like it would be a very bad brand to be associated with your music. Having a son who's 12, and having recently had a bunch of pre-teens running around my house all going through the timeless ritual of identity crafting, I have gotten to listen to their music, watch their media, and hear their…

Oddly enough, I view contemporary popular music with boredom too.

I'm one of those musicians who plays jazz. I'm a double bassist and a so called "day jobber," meaning that music is not my primary income source. Am I an expert technician? Sure. A decade of classical lessons, thousands of hours of practice, and 30+ years on the bandstand will do that to you.

Why jazz? Well, for one thing, contemporary popular music doesn't even involve my instrument. I'm obsolete. ;-) And I love the double bass -- the sound, technique, history, contemporary leaders, and even just the sheer absurdity of it. For another, I've developed my jazz chops to the point where my best chance of making further musical progress is to continue with jazz. I don't know where I'd even begin to come up with new ideas in the contemporary pop styles, or how I would turn it into a performance art.

There are a couple more things. While there's certainly a market for contemporary pop music, it's utterly saturated with talent. And pop music has always been youth and appearance oriented. As to how credible a 52 year old guy would be in that scene, I'll leave to the imagination. And the target demographic has been conditioned to expect entertainment to be free. For a non-superstar, the popular scene -- even going back as far as rock & roll, is depressing.

So a few of us who have no prospects in popular music, but enjoy performing with some semblance of dignity, will be drawn to other musical genres. In your locale it may be jazz, but more broadly it's also classical, baroque, fiddle music, accompanying dance clubs, etc. Living near Chicago, there's a lot of blues. Players who are still interested in the electric guitar & bass find outlets in the various forms of heavy metal and rock music, playing small venues that support original music.

Money? Surprisingly, yes. For almost a couple decades, I've had a pretty consistent schedule, of roughly one gig per week. Most of the work is paid, with very little overhead. There's no heavy equipment to set up, and commercial gigs such as weddings and corporate events are un-rehearsed. I've never had to go on tour. At the same time, rock bands find it almost prohibitive to break into paid work, because the established players tend to corner the market on the good commercial work.

Another surprise is that an audience will crawl out of the woodwork when good music is being performed. Not a huge audience, and not necessarily a drinking audience, which severely limits the economics. But people will come. Some are musically omnivorous, or even like newer styles, but show up because we still know how to entertain, and we can perform without driving you to deafness.

So I'll never claim to understand the economics of the music business, but it seems to me that there are little niches where people can enjoy performing with dignity while opting out of the mainstream popular music scene.

My kids, both teenagers, have shown no interest in either jazz or popular music, as musicians. They both prefer classical.

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet, for some reason, they spend their time playing Jazz derivatives and covers or as studio musicians. Because that's the kind of music they like to play and know best. If they went to music school, jazz and classical are the dominant music styles that are taught. Also, you can make a pretty good living as a studio musician. It's much less risky than trying to sell your own albums as a solo artist. > Interestingly…

dead on. for more examples of what goes by "jazz" these days: Takuya Kuroda - Rising Son : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mUymaxWmMw Hiatus Kaiyote - The World It Softly Lulls : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqzFgkkQXWw Kamasi Washington - Changing of the Guard : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtQRBzSN9Vw Snarky Puppy - Don't You Know : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqY3FaZmh-Y Thundercat - Them Changes : http…

That's an excellent playlist there, thank you.

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#27
post #5

I clearly know nothing about music, but why does it even have to be called 'Jazz'? Given those market numbers cited, it seems like it would be a very bad brand to be associated with your music. Having a son who's 12, and having recently had a bunch of pre-teens running around my house all going through the timeless ritual of identity crafting, I have gotten to listen to their music, watch their media, and hear their…

> why does it even have to be called 'Jazz'? * http://www.apassion4jazz.net/etymology.html * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_(word)#Etymology > But, if I went to a music venue today, and the band was playing Jazz, I'd be bored out of my mind. Jazz has many flavours that have long walked hand-in-hand with social dancing. Maybe spend a bit more time exploring its depth? Here's a modern rendition of a timeless classi…

Even Miles Davis said once, he doesn't like the word jazz. In his opinion back then, it should have been called people's music. Nice swing music you posted up there, but when we talk about jazz, we need to mention some of the greats of modern time, like Pat Metheney, Pat Martino, John Scofield, Heribie Hancock, Chick Corea and that alien called Alan Holdsworth (fusion ? ) The "weirdest" the music gets, the harder it is to label it. There is a ton of modern jazz artists that i haven't mentioned. Like Metheney once said, you need to explore, because there is good jazz and there is bad jazz...

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet, for some reason, they spend their time playing Jazz derivatives and covers or as studio musicians. Because that's the kind of music they like to play and know best. If they went to music school, jazz and classical are the dominant music styles that are taught. Also, you can make a pretty good living as a studio musician. It's much less risky than trying to sell your own albums as a solo artist. > Interestingly…

dead on. for more examples of what goes by "jazz" these days: Takuya Kuroda - Rising Son : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mUymaxWmMw Hiatus Kaiyote - The World It Softly Lulls : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqzFgkkQXWw Kamasi Washington - Changing of the Guard : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtQRBzSN9Vw Snarky Puppy - Don't You Know : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqY3FaZmh-Y Thundercat - Them Changes : http…

i like the songs, but to me it still looks like there is no innovation going on there. Just repackaging of old themes using new (digital) instruments. I think nothing comes close to Alan Holdsworth in terms of innovation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXSd-WyrtfA

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#29
post #5

I clearly know nothing about music, but why does it even have to be called 'Jazz'? Given those market numbers cited, it seems like it would be a very bad brand to be associated with your music. Having a son who's 12, and having recently had a bunch of pre-teens running around my house all going through the timeless ritual of identity crafting, I have gotten to listen to their music, watch their media, and hear their…

These things have value. That value exists independently of popularity or financial success. Those expert young musicians play jazz because they love jazz. Everything else they do is a means to that end. As long as people continue to love jazz, then jazz will thrive. Jazz musicians are proud to be part of a tradition, just like folk or classical musicians. They see themselves as part of something enduring, something…

Well put. My son is 6 and a huge fan of Sun Ra, he's also into Flying Lotus, Radiohead and Kamasi Washington. He's there to explore, and find his place. I'll encourage him as far as I can. I love your last sentence, I hope he finds his way, and if intended, that he carries that torch.

Re: Jazz in the 21st century: Playing outside the box

#30
post #2

Teaching Jazz is the way to go for most people who want to make a living from Jazz. I know several successful musicians who started as Jazz musicians but make a good living in rock and pop music. Getting to be known as the best of the best on your instrument via your Jazz chops can open doors in other genres to be invited to work with very successful, established artists. To make a living directly from Jazz you reall…

Indeed, likewise for classical music too. I'm pretty involved in my local music scene. Everybody I know who makes a decent middle class income from music, teaches. For one thing, there's reasonable demand. For another, it's a way for a performer fill your schedule with work during the hours when they pretty much can't be performing.

While, I'm incredibly grateful for the music education I've received [and still play at the age where many fellow amateurs increasingly don't [though time well tell whether I keep this up as I intend to]], the idea that the vast majority of artists primarily teach the next generation does carry the whiff of a Ponzi scheme.
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