Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed • Hacker News Board

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#21

Post by kbenson » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

hobs wrote: post #6

mrits wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one route to nationalization. Increase regulation, make impossible to manage until nobody believes the company can do the job, then add it to your political platform.

So cutting funding is increasing regulation how?

I'm pretty sure what's being presented is the opposite situation, where private companies have an industry taken away, rather than handed to them.

That said, I'm not entirely sure how increased regulation makes it impossible to manage as long as the rest of the market is allowed to work. It's fairly obvious that both capitalism and socialism have very real downsides when unfettered. It's a balancing act.

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#22

Post by fredgrott » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

atria wrote: post #16

e40 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't get voted down, because it's just the way things are. It is really mind boggling how many GOP supporters try and deny this. What has happened in FL since the early 00's is just criminal. How opponents of Rick Scott couldn't get him ejected from office is a mystery to me, if it's not solely "money in politics."

I hope it gets voted down. It was John F. Kennedy that introduced the Community Mental Health act of 1963 to close down and defund mental institions. The idea of cutting spending for mental facilities was put forth by the Democratic party, not GOP. Both parties have continued ever since.

of course that is not the only Kennedy miss-step towards appropriate funding of mental health..there was the case of JFK's sister: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#23

Post by connoredel » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

mrits wrote: post #5

rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one route to privatization. Cut funding, manage poorly until nobody believes the state can do the job, then sell to your allies.

It's one route to nationalization. Increase regulation, make impossible to manage until nobody believes the company can do the job, then add it to your political platform.

Don't know why you're being downvoted. You astutely point out that just as defunding can cause a move toward privatization (or the belief that only private enterprise can solve a given problem), so too can overregulation lead toward nationalization (or even at state/local levels, the belief that only government can solve it).

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#24

Post by kbenson » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:48 PM UTC

atria wrote: post #16

e40 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't get voted down, because it's just the way things are. It is really mind boggling how many GOP supporters try and deny this. What has happened in FL since the early 00's is just criminal. How opponents of Rick Scott couldn't get him ejected from office is a mystery to me, if it's not solely "money in politics."

I hope it gets voted down. It was John F. Kennedy that introduced the Community Mental Health act of 1963 to close down and defund mental institions. The idea of cutting spending for mental facilities was put forth by the Democratic party, not GOP. Both parties have continued ever since.

The problem, and this applies to both parties and liberals and conservatives, is that politics is rarely evidence based. It's anecdote based, because that's what's easier to get people to relate to. There are plenty of liberal policies that are disasters, just as there are conservative ones, but if you attempt to change them it's an attack on that ideology, regardless of how well the policy is working in practice. The biggest problem with politics isn't that politicians are insular and out for themselves and their own interests/area, it's that they've all got their heads stuck so far into the ground they don't even know whether what they are doing is actually helping or hurting. Confirmation bias at its worst and most harmful.

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#25

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #13

Maybe they were worried about a downtick in "Florida Man" stories? This is one sure way to keep your state in the "News of the Weird" segment every week.

The Florida Man phenomenon is mainly a result of the state's stringent public-records laws [1]:

"Since 1909, Florida has had a proud tradition that all government business is public business and therefore should be available to the public. That means all records, including photos and videos, produced by a public agency are easily accessible with a few narrow and obvious exceptions. Public officials are also required to open all of their meetings — even unofficial ones — to the public."

[1] http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/how-floridas-proud-open-go...

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#26

Post by kls » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

pbarnes_1 wrote: post #4

leekh wrote: post #2

Why cut these services?! Is Florida going to add more police, social workers, ER doctors and etc deal with the consequences?

Who do you think cut these services? This is GOP 101. Never elect a Republican governor. See MI, ME, FL, etc, etc.

To be fair we (FL) have had a horrible track record with mental health care for the better part of 5 decades. While I am no fan of Scott and his corruption the state of mental health care in FL has been on a slow roll downhill for a long time and both sides are just as culpable.

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#27

Post by thrownaway666 » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:52 PM UTC

atria wrote: post #16

e40 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't get voted down, because it's just the way things are. It is really mind boggling how many GOP supporters try and deny this. What has happened in FL since the early 00's is just criminal. How opponents of Rick Scott couldn't get him ejected from office is a mystery to me, if it's not solely "money in politics."

I hope it gets voted down. It was John F. Kennedy that introduced the Community Mental Health act of 1963 to close down and defund mental institions. The idea of cutting spending for mental facilities was put forth by the Democratic party, not GOP. Both parties have continued ever since.

No. This is an old, standard Republican mis-talking point that (as usual) is unsupported by facts.

The Community Mental Health act was fully funded at the time it was passed, to the tune of $330 million, and received almost $2 billion over the next decade. It was an example of an INCREASE in federal funding for mental health, put forth by Democrats, and bitterly opposed by Republicans.

Individual states, with Republican blessing, were the culprits in not continuing to fund local clinics. Then in 1980, Republican Ronald Reagan changed federal mental health funding to make it a block grant, spendable by states any old way they chose. And many chose NOT to spend it on mental health. Not content to turn Californians with mental illness out in the street (which he did as California governor), he decided he'd do that to America at large.

Don't try to blame Dems for standard Republican obstructionism that damaged and continues to damage public health.

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#28

Post by kbenson » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:52 PM UTC

chefandy wrote: post #9

Shit. That's bad. Those CC camera clips make it look more like the time I spent as a bouncer than someplace where people are safely receiving treatment for their mental conditions.

Well, I'm only partially joking when I point out that wherever you were a bouncer at was likely a place quite a few people voluntarily went to treat their mental conditions.

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#29

Post by trhway » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:53 PM UTC

leekh wrote: post #2

Why cut these services?! Is Florida going to add more police, social workers, ER doctors and etc deal with the consequences?

>Is Florida going to add more police, social workers, ER doctors and etc deal with the consequences?

no. Like all the others it will add more prisons. Prison guards unions and commercial prison providers are doing exceptionally well financially and the prison guard unions are actually the biggest and most powerful lobbyists, at least in CA.

There is no such thing as decrease of spending, there are only increase and redistribution - benefiting the most powerful of course.

Re: Florida cut $100M from its mental hospitals – chaos followed

#30

Post by emehrkay » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:54 PM UTC

pbarnes_1 wrote: post #4

leekh wrote: post #2

Why cut these services?! Is Florida going to add more police, social workers, ER doctors and etc deal with the consequences?

Who do you think cut these services? This is GOP 101. Never elect a Republican governor. See MI, ME, FL, etc, etc.

Rick Scott's administration passed a law that said welfare recipients must be drug tested in order to receive benefits. Rick Scott's family has a lot (~68/200 million) invested in some of those facilities.