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What “full stack” really means to the job market

chrismm.com

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Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#22

>>> Whenever you have to google some error message or problem, read all the answers. Get as much context as possible on your problem, and do not be satisfied just with having come across a solution. This is a fatal flaw. Considering a TON of JS frameworks are so new, there just isn't a whole body of data on issues people are experiencing. I don't how many times when React started getting traction, I'd google an issue…

And then there's the converse problem with older frameworks like Rails: you google a question and you find three different answers, and now you have to figure out which of them work in your context (because your context can't be summarized by which version of Rails you have).

If you're googling something about Linux it's even common to find that none of the answers fits your context.

The more "full-stack" I get, the more I just hate all stacks. Everything turns to shit if you give it long enough.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#23
post #18

I couldn't disagree more with this entire article. > the self-taught web developer knows surprisingly little about the web’s underlying technology. I know very few developers who aren't self-taught. In reality the opposite seems to be true. It's the developers who take a course and don't continue learning that stall. This is something technologists (even non-developers) absolutely _need_ to do -- self-teaching. The a…

> Disagree 100%. Some of the best developers I've met understand very well how to separate their work. The stereotypical hacker that works all through the night on obscure problems tend to pidgenhole themselves and lose sight of the purpose of programming. They also tend to be the ones that burn out to epic proportions. It's a very unhealthy mindset to have, and to be encouraging others to have.

Yes.

I'd add: anyone smart enough to be considered an expert in any subject will eventually find other subjects to explore. I'd argue this helps them become a better developer, more than coding in their spare time ever would.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#24

>I have met many programmers that don’t like to code in their spare time, and that has reliably revealed them to be sub-par developers. Whatever little credibility you had up to this point you've just lost.

The ability to automate is powerful. Anyone who doesn't find a use for it in their private life isn't just a mediocre developer; they're a mediocre human.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly, because someone who explores other technologies unrelated to his/her "work" field will inevitably pick up experience and knowledge - which the employer can grab for free without sending the employee to expensive courses or having to hire highly specialized freelancers. I have done a lot of weird things as "hobby" projects with even weirder technologies, including interfacing with smartcards in PHP (don't…

> Not exactly, because someone who explores other technologies unrelated to his/her "work" field will inevitably pick up experience and knowledge - which the employer can grab for free without sending the employee to expensive courses or having to hire highly specialized freelancers. I don't think there is any debate that, in general, someone who tinkers, explores, and codes outside of work will be relatively better…

>I don't think there is any debate that, in general, someone who tinkers, explores, and codes outside of work will be relatively better than someone who doesn't.

I've found that the truth of this depends almost entirely on the type of coding one is doing at work.

If you're doing challenging work all day and then do some challenging work after hours, you'll likely be better than most based on the sheer amount of practice.

If your day job is mostly a joke and you are maintaining systems that you don't really understand, coding all night won't make you better than someone who is doing challenging work all day and logging off entirely at closing time.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not exactly, because someone who explores other technologies unrelated to his/her "work" field will inevitably pick up experience and knowledge - which the employer can grab for free without sending the employee to expensive courses or having to hire highly specialized freelancers. I don't think there is any debate that, in general, someone who tinkers, explores, and codes outside of work will be relatively better…

>I don't think there is any debate that, in general, someone who tinkers, explores, and codes outside of work will be relatively better than someone who doesn't. I've found that the truth of this depends almost entirely on the type of coding one is doing at work. If you're doing challenging work all day and then do some challenging work after hours, you'll likely be better than most based on the sheer amount of pract…

Hence why I said "in general", though after considering what you wrote here there may be more exceptions than I thought.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#27
post #18

I couldn't disagree more with this entire article. > the self-taught web developer knows surprisingly little about the web’s underlying technology. I know very few developers who aren't self-taught. In reality the opposite seems to be true. It's the developers who take a course and don't continue learning that stall. This is something technologists (even non-developers) absolutely _need_ to do -- self-teaching. The a…

And conflating full stack with just front end and back end doesn't help to me full stack means layer 1-7

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#28

>I have met many programmers that don’t like to code in their spare time, and that has reliably revealed them to be sub-par developers. Whatever little credibility you had up to this point you've just lost.

I quit reading here. This idea that programmers have to work 18-hour days just to avoid becoming substandard is idiotic.

ps. if you have to spend all your free time studying to avoid losing your job, you never actually had any free time to begin with.

Re: What “full stack” really means to the job market

#29
I proudly call myself a 1/2 stack developer. Didn't put it on the resume, but I used tell that people who were interviewing me, it makes for a good joke to break up the ice.

So I know one half, but I know it well. Yes, I've heard of front end frameworks, some design ideas, some CSS but I might as well say I don't. Well, so far it has worked pretty well for me.

I also heavily interviewed for my company before, and would usually be pretty leery of who claimed they are "full stack". Yes, some candidates were really good and knew both sides, but most just knew about superficial stuff on both ends (which is ok too, just not for what we were hiring).

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