21–30 of 110 posts
I would suggest reconsidering the suggestion to use proprietary software and fad approaches. Consider digging a bit deeper before criticizing.
Just because something isn't up to date with the latest bling doesn't mean it's bad, wrong, or unwise.
I agree that email is not a VCS, but it's worked relatively well for 30 years. I would carefully consider where the actual problem is.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regarding the "code of conduct" fad/trend, I don't understand where it came from or what problem it's trying to solve. I suspect that I might be sympathetic to their goals, if the "code of conduct" people did a better job of explaining them, but they just seem to take the necessity of this practice for granted. I therefore assume that the cultural conversation which produced the idea must have taken place in some ven…
Are you serious or arguing insincerely? I can't tell. Codes of conduct are a direct response to ongoing harassment and stalking against various contributors of various open-source projects, followed by inaction on the part of the project maintainers or the excuse of "that just can't handle criticism". What is so offensive about saying "make it about the code, not about the person" and "don't stalk, dox, or harass peo…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regarding the "code of conduct" fad/trend, I don't understand where it came from or what problem it's trying to solve. I suspect that I might be sympathetic to their goals, if the "code of conduct" people did a better job of explaining them, but they just seem to take the necessity of this practice for granted. I therefore assume that the cultural conversation which produced the idea must have taken place in some ven…
Are you serious or arguing insincerely? I can't tell. Codes of conduct are a direct response to ongoing harassment and stalking against various contributors of various open-source projects, followed by inaction on the part of the project maintainers or the excuse of "that just can't handle criticism". What is so offensive about saying "make it about the code, not about the person" and "don't stalk, dox, or harass peo…
Perhaps it is generational, and the new guard will eventually win this battle one funeral at a time. But as a politically liberal curmudgeon, 'codes of conduct' feel like the beta release of 'safe spaces'.
please go back to Pokemon Go-ing on my lawn... quietly. Daddy has to focus on writing code.
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>Can we at least work on documenting contributor workflow? It is documented. Look at the file "CONTRIBUTE" in the root of the Emacs source. That file is also cited in the manual: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Co... And that manual page is the first Google result for "contributing to emacs".
Thanks for taking the time to respond. This nice, but I have screwed around with open source for a long time. So, things like: > Ref: The "Tips" Appendix in the Emacs Lisp Reference. Example Novice (not me in this case): How do I get to that? > After you have downloaded the repository source, you should read the file INSTALL.REPO for build instructions (they differ to some extent from a normal build). > Ref: http://s…
To be honest, the 'less tooling, more learning' is exactly why I prefer the GNU culture. It keeps inessential complexity down. A lot of people are broadly in my side of the boat, and it's a major part of why we're here...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you serious or arguing insincerely? I can't tell. Codes of conduct are a direct response to ongoing harassment and stalking against various contributors of various open-source projects, followed by inaction on the part of the project maintainers or the excuse of "that just can't handle criticism". What is so offensive about saying "make it about the code, not about the person" and "don't stalk, dox, or harass peo…
I am completely serious and meant exactly what I said. I did not say that it was offensive; I said that I don't understand where the practice came from. I have never been part of an open source community where "stalking, doxing, or harassing" was a problem - or at least not a problem anyone talked about. It sounds very strange, and it's hard to imagine how people that immature could be capable of doing good engineeri…
Is a big part of the problem. A lot participants don't want to be seen to be rocking the boat so they let stuff slide that they really shouldn't in the effort to not be "that person".
A formal code of conduct gives people the support up front to come forward with complaints about other members.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regarding the "code of conduct" fad/trend, I don't understand where it came from or what problem it's trying to solve. I suspect that I might be sympathetic to their goals, if the "code of conduct" people did a better job of explaining them, but they just seem to take the necessity of this practice for granted. I therefore assume that the cultural conversation which produced the idea must have taken place in some ven…
Code of conducts are a response to the democratization and increased accessibility of software development. Like in other communities, as the number of collaborators increases and the number of personalities, behaviors, backgrounds, and ideologies intersect, the chance of disagreements goes up. Code of conducts are a sane effort to highlight behavior that won't be tolerated, such that it's written down and no longer…
I'd also love to see actual stats showing a CoC improved a project on objective criteria. Less defects or something.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you serious or arguing insincerely? I can't tell. Codes of conduct are a direct response to ongoing harassment and stalking against various contributors of various open-source projects, followed by inaction on the part of the project maintainers or the excuse of "that just can't handle criticism". What is so offensive about saying "make it about the code, not about the person" and "don't stalk, dox, or harass peo…
He's quite sincere, and there are others of us who agree. Codes of conduct are a flavor of the month, and they don't achieve anything. I don't need to pre-announce that I will not accept patches from murderers or pedophiles, I can simply do it. The same is true for the types of offenses typical of a code of conduct. Perhaps it is generational, and the new guard will eventually win this battle one funeral at a time. B…
In other words you've never felt harassed. That's a good thing but it doesn't mean your situation is all encompassing.
>The same is true for the types of offenses typical of a code of conduct.
Also a good thing. How many times have you rejected a patch because someone was harassing another member of your community?
I thought the cliche was meant to be that old developers don't know new tech and don't want to know.
Now it seems that there are even more new developers that don't want to know old tech.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regarding the "code of conduct" fad/trend, I don't understand where it came from or what problem it's trying to solve. I suspect that I might be sympathetic to their goals, if the "code of conduct" people did a better job of explaining them, but they just seem to take the necessity of this practice for granted. I therefore assume that the cultural conversation which produced the idea must have taken place in some ven…
Are you serious or arguing insincerely? I can't tell. Codes of conduct are a direct response to ongoing harassment and stalking against various contributors of various open-source projects, followed by inaction on the part of the project maintainers or the excuse of "that just can't handle criticism". What is so offensive about saying "make it about the code, not about the person" and "don't stalk, dox, or harass peo…
A very common clause in codes of conduct is that people who are identified with a project must uphold the code of contact when they are communicating, even when they do so outside the context of the project. Usually "identified with a project" is defined loosely enough that it can be used fairly indiscriminately. It has happened that people who voiced objectionable ideas outside the context of a project have been forcibly removed from those projects.
For some, this is a triumph of justice. For others (and I include myself in this camp) it is further fostering an "us" vs "them" viewpoint, vilifying those whose ideas differ. Interpersonal conflict is difficult and requires considerable skill to moderate. A code of conduct, while it can simply be a communication of the ideals that the project strives towards, can be used as a scaffolding to attack those who we disagree with and wish to punish.
It sounds like the author wants basically everything about how Emacs is developed to change in order to better fit their ideas about what open source looks like. There are plenty of established projects that don't use a "pull request" workflow, Emacs only recently migrated to Git; I don't have the discussion from ESR around migrating Emacs to Git handy, but it was a pretty slow process to "bring Emacs into the 21st c…